So range 4 - 5 weapons have been around for a while in epic format, but we have yet to see any range 4+ weapons for the standard / tournament format of X-Wing. I think the inclusion of some longer-range weaponry would be interesting and freshen up the game somewhat by leading to new strategies and tactics. It would also remove some of the "if you can shoot me I can shoot you" issue with turrets, causing both players to have to think about their maneuvers more.

I don't know the likelihood of FFG ever including range 4+ weapons in standard play, but if they did, how would you like to see it implemented? Here are what I see as possibilities:

1) New ships with range 4+ primaries: This worked for epic, could work for standard as well. Would require testing to ensure new ships aren't OP.

2) Modification for range 4+ primaries: Not sure how this would work. If it was available to all ships than it doesn't really change anything, maybe making turrets even better. Would have to be available only to certain ships, with appropriate cost to not OP others.

3) New secondaries with range 4+: This prevents all ships from getting the upgrade, as only certain ships can take cannons / missiles / torps. May make current munitions even less used. Solution would be to combine with option 4.

4) Modification for range 4+ secondaries: This would allow current cannons and munitions to go out to range 4+. I like this option, especially for munitions. One, it makes sense that missiles can go further than primaries. Two, it could make most munitions viable again. Three, as a one-shot weapon you are going to have to think about when to use it and it is not going to affect game play too much. Four, it is limited to the types of ships that can carry that weapon.

So who thinks range 4+ should be introduced into tournament games, or would you like to see it introduced for casual games only? Either way, how would you implement it?

I don't see it happening in standard play because it's difficult to measure with a normal range ruler. A lot of people don't have any epic ships even if they play a lot.

Much like with new dice, including the range 4-5 ruler in a non-epic product is problematic.

You'd have to package any R4 torps in an Epic, or a least a MW size pack.

Yeah.

I can't see them ever giving a non-epic ship range 4 primaries, would be very, very powerful. I could see them doing that with secondary weapons, and I think that would make them a lot more useful.

But as Sithborg points out, the logistics of it is what kills the whole idea.

Because to do it, you have to presuppose that someone has access to either a epic ruler, or 2 rulers. But FFG doesn't do that, they don't seem to be willing to introduce anything into a game that is useful in general but requires someone to own a given expansion.

You can now use debris tokens for example but they aren't required, so no one is required to own the YT-2400 or VT-49.

I don't see much of a logistical issue with a range ruler. Make a +1 range add-on that slots onto an end of the current ruler when needed. Similar to how the templates slot into the bases. Include it with the pack that has the new weapons. Problem solved.

So range 4 - 5 weapons have been around for a while in epic format, but we have yet to see any range 4+ weapons for the standard / tournament format of X-Wing. I think the inclusion of some longer-range weaponry would be interesting and freshen up the game somewhat by leading to new strategies and tactics. It would also remove some of the "if you can shoot me I can shoot you" issue with turrets, causing both players to have to think about their maneuvers more.

I don't know the likelihood of FFG ever including range 4+ weapons in standard play, but if they did, how would you like to see it implemented? Here are what I see as possibilities:

1) New ships with range 4+ primaries: This worked for epic, could work for standard as well. Would require testing to ensure new ships aren't OP.

2) Modification for range 4+ primaries: Not sure how this would work. If it was available to all ships than it doesn't really change anything, maybe making turrets even better. Would have to be available only to certain ships, with appropriate cost to not OP others.

3) New secondaries with range 4+: This prevents all ships from getting the upgrade, as only certain ships can take cannons / missiles / torps. May make current munitions even less used. Solution would be to combine with option 4.

4) Modification for range 4+ secondaries: This would allow current cannons and munitions to go out to range 4+. I like this option, especially for munitions. One, it makes sense that missiles can go further than primaries. Two, it could make most munitions viable again. Three, as a one-shot weapon you are going to have to think about when to use it and it is not going to affect game play too much. Four, it is limited to the types of ships that can carry that weapon.

So who thinks range 4+ should be introduced into tournament games, or would you like to see it introduced for casual games only? Either way, how would you implement it?

So a way to get around the epic range ruler would be to allow a bomber to choose a friendly ship within range 1-2 (maybe even 3) and allow it to measure range from that friendly ship and use that ship's TL to fire the ordnance.

You could then combo that with a weapons engineer on a lambda or something up front, or combo it with ATC Advances or whatever.

Also, cannons are already blatantly better versions of missiles/torpedoes, if cannons get to fire at range 4-5 also then we're back at square one. Also, cannon slot ships would just be OP then. Well, at least the good ones would be. Dual Aggressors are already good enough, their HLCs don't need to be range 4 lol.

I could see a long range modification for missiles and torpedoes only.

Something like - Any torpedo or missile equipped on this ship may be fired at range 2 - 5 without spending a target lock or focus. It would have to come with an epic ship but that's ok. You don't have to own every ship to play the game anyway.

It would be a straight up bonus for all ordinance that is needed any.

I think that Munitions could work at longer ranges, and target locks could also work at longer ranges. An easy way to implement this would be with a very cheap modification card (0-2 pts) that allows for target locks and range 3 munitions to extend out to range 4. Include this with a ship that also has a range 1 template.

Could this be the Bomber love hinted/promised by the game designer?!?

I would love this to be true, or even if it was just a non-unique TIE-Bomber title...

I don't see much of a logistical issue with a range ruler. Make a +1 range add-on that slots onto an end of the current ruler when needed. Similar to how the templates slot into the bases. Include it with the pack that has the new weapons. Problem solved.

You understand that they would have to include the add on with EVERY ship that includes an upgrade with the expanded range? Especially for small ships, that space on the card board adds up.

You understand that they would have to include the add on with EVERY ship that includes an upgrade with the expanded range?

True, but how many upgrades are duplicated across more the one ship?

If you don't count secondary weapons, it's fairly rare to have a upgrade in more than one package, even one as popular as Push the Limit or Advanced Sensors.

I don't think it's quite as easy as the person you were quoting. The extension would have to be over 100mm long, perhaps 125mm or so. That's like range 3, and I'm not sure the current packages have room for that, sort of a big box like the Large ships or Aces come in.

A range 1 template, which is just helpful in general, should fit in a blister the size of the one that the StarViper came in. It is 100mm, and there is no need to make fit onto the standard range 3 template. If FFG makes a slightly larger than standard munitions carrier, either StarViper sized or on a large base, then they could throw in the range 1 template. FFG could also create an Ion or stress bomb that uses the range 1 blast radius in the same pack. And a pilot-card sized rules-card to further explain the extended range of TLs and munitions. This extended range would probably only affect munitions that already have range 2-3 and cost more than 2 pts or 3 pts, to keep the Flechette torps and/or Ion Missles from being too cheap (unless the extended range modification had its own cost). Keeping the expansion of range to range 2-3 munitions would keep all missles/torps in the 3 ranges maximum.

There would also need to be a FAQ on the bomber pilot that modifies munition ranges (or maybe not).

The 1-3 range band is fairly large, especially on a large based ship. The 1-4 range band is freaking huge! It very nearly covers a 1/3 of the 3x3.

How often do you actually see Large ships take Munitions (missiles or torpedoes)? Especially the turrets that don't want to have to keep other ships in their arcs. Also the proposed range 4 fix would either take up the modification spot (which usually goes to EU, SU, or HU) on the Large ships, or possibly be bomber specific (even though I would prefer all munition users get the chance to actually use munitions).

Range 4 missiles/torps would be able to semi-counter the HLC threats and would still have a hard time against high agility ships.

The fix is easy, have a mod that allows target locking in arc to r5 and makes r 2-3 missiles and torpedoes into r 3-5

I've thought it would be nice to have a long range missile/torp that would reach out past a R3 target. Of course how it bring it in without introducing all kinds of other concepts like the extended range rule would be the problem.

Pass please. I have said it before is someone start one shorting me at a range I have no hope in &%$- of shooting back at it would really tic me off.

I don't think range 4 is a bad idea, though if it were introduced, I'd like to see it handled much like the Mech Warrior universe. In MW, auto cannons had varying ranges based on their size. The heavier a Cannon was, the more damage it did, however, it's range was hampered. AC 2's however had huge range, but didn't do much damage.

A friend had modded one of his mech so it could plink away with impunity from extreme range. It was always interesting to watch him in tournaments keeping his opponents at great distance and whittling them down before they could close the gap.

So, in the X-wing universe, it would be interesting to see this on 1 and 2 attack ships, but only on ships with a fixed firing arc.

Epic is played on a larger area, range 4 and 5 shots would be OP in the standard format.

Even if it was just for ordinance it would require T/L's and if you can take a t/L at that range then every one will have a lock on everyone else well before normal combat starts.

It would be like everyone having the ST321 lamda title...

Epic is played on a larger area, range 4 and 5 shots would be OP in the standard format.

Even if it was just for ordinance it would require T/L's and if you can take a t/L at that range then every one will have a lock on everyone else well before normal combat starts.

It would be like everyone having the ST321 lamda title...

I would suggest a mod that increases TL and munitions range. Once munitions are gone, TL range goes back to 3. No one would be target locked before combat, as combat range and TL range would still be equal. Could even rule that any TLs gained at range 4+ have to be used that turn or clear at round end.

I'd be interested in adding Range 4+ weapons to the standard game, but I think it could be accomplished using Title cards and existing Epic cards rather than requiring completely new weapons.
Something I whipped up for a Reddit homebrew thread:

Title: Testbed. Cost: -2. HWK-290 only. Non-unique.

• This ship's card loses "<Attack> 1" and gains "<Energy Limit 3>".
• This ship's card loses "<Turret>" and "<Crew>" icons.
• This ship's card gains 1 each of "<Hardpoint>", "<Team>", and "<Cargo>" icons.
• When revealing your maneuver dial, gain 2 Energy if a green maneuver is revealed or 1 Energy if a white maneuver is revealed.

There are a ton of neat cards that Huge Ship owners can't play outside of Epic games, and this would provide a way to let them see some action. Plus Range 3-5 weapons would go a long way to keeping the Hawk alive, which appears to be its primary issue. Also, tying energy gain to maneuvers means that ionization works correctly from a small ship standpoint and energy generation standpoint.

You could do something similar for the Lambda as well, maybe with an additional Team slot, and release them with a full complement of cards as an Aces-style two-pack. It would help get these two underplayed airframes some more table time, as well as letting people play more Epic cards without having to plunk down 200+ points every game.

Epic is played on a larger area, range 4 and 5 shots would be OP in the standard format.

Even if it was just for ordinance it would require T/L's and if you can take a t/L at that range then every one will have a lock on everyone else well before normal combat starts.
It would be like everyone having the ST321 lamda title...

The rulebook specifically says that you can expand the standard-format play area if playing with Obstacles, so I don't feel like Range 4 / 5 weapons necessarily require a completely new game format. Maybe move the standard tournament table to 4' x 4'; seems like more than enough room for Range 4+ weapons, especially if you have to shoot them through asteroids.

Players may agree to increase the size of their play area to account for these extra elements.

If there were any range 4-5 weapons/upgrades you would need to include the extended range ruler.

However the game is designed around the range 1-3 ruler inside the 3'x3' format for standard. Epic has a larger 3'x6' format and the ships move so slow that often you need the range 5 ruler in order to get some attacks within the 3rd or 4th turn. Even armada takes a few turns in order to get within attack range.