What is ONE effect?

By agohorst, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

Posted at
Hallo!


In the FAQ I read that " eparate effects will always be separated in a different paragraph" (at least on Events and Characters).

Does this hold true in this strictness for all cards?? What about, say, the Raven-attachments ("It is Summer. Each player takes 1 additional gold token when he or she counts income."): Are both sentence considered to be part of *one* effect or does this paragraph actually contain two different effects?


I hope my question is understandable in spite of my bad english (sorry for that!)...

Thanks in advance!!

Posted at

Given the space on the cards, it would probably be more accurate of the FAQ to say that each separate sentence is considered a separate effect (although multiple sentences can share the same costs, play restrictions, etc.).

The Raven attachments are a good example. Each sentence is considered a separate effect. So, for example, if the Black Raven is out and, for some reason, it cannot be summer (there's an agenda that does this), the second sentence (about taking additional gold) is still active and applicable, even though it is not summer.

Other examples include things like, "Search your deck for a character card. Shuffle your deck." or "Lower the cost of the next attachment you play this phase by 1. Ignore all gold penalties to play that attachment." In both cases, the first and second sentences are totally independent, so even if one cannot happen for one reason or another, the second can.

Posted at

Given the space on the cards, it would probably be more accurate of the FAQ to say that each separate sentence is considered a separate effect (although multiple sentences can share the same costs, play restrictions, etc.).

The Raven attachments are a good example. Each sentence is considered a separate effect.

...

Thank you very much!
There is still a little gap in my understanding... By your answer so far, I can hardly cope with the card Rickon Stark ("Response: After an effect allows you to search your deck, kneel Rickon Stark to copy that effect")... I mean, applying his ability literally would imply:
- Time for Wolves [1]: The second Direwolf does not come into play?!
- The Turncloak's Task [2], Sansa Stark [3] : The second card found stays in deck?!
- Building/Summoning Season [4]: The controler of the plot does not get to choose a new opponent?!*
- To be a Wolf [5]: The opponent may not change his mind about the forbidden cardtype?!
I think I have read contrary statements several times. So what piece am I missing?
And there is a slightly related question (- I honestly don't want to be greedy! :) ):
Why is the "When revealed,choose an opponent."-part on Summoning/Building Season (apparently) considerd an effect, and not choosing a target?
[1] "When revealed, search your deck for a neutral or in-House Creature card with printed cost 3 or lower, reveal it, and add it to your hand. If it is a Direwolf, you may put it into play instead. Then shuffle your deck."
[2] "When revealed, if you have a [stark] House card search your deck for a [Lannister] card. If you have a [Greyjoy] House card search your deck for a [Targaryen] card. Reveal and add that card to your hand and shuffle your deck"
[3] "Response: After you play Sansa Stark from your hand, search your deck for a card. If you have the fewest cards at your command, add it to your hand. Otherwise, discard it. Shuffle your deck."
[4] "When revealed,choose an opponent. Then,you and that opponent must each search your decks for a location [/character],reveal it,and put it into your hands. Then,shuffle your decks."
[5] "Challenges: Stand a [stark] character you control to have an opponent name a card type. Search your deck for a card of a different type,reveal it,and put it into your hand."
Posted at

You might be over-doing it a bit and taking the word "effect" too literally.

Remember that a card's text/ability is split into:

1. Cost,

2. Play restrictions,

3. Targeting requirements, and

4. Effects

Just because each sentence on the card's text represents a separate effect that can resolve independently of each other effect does not mean that they are treated individually when something refers to an "effect." All effects that share the same initiation (#'s 1, 2 and 3) are part of the same overall "effect." So a card like Rickon that says to copy "an effect that allows you to search your deck" does not pick and choose the part of the overall card text that does the actual searching. Anything that shares the same initiation would be copied by Rickon. And all restrictions on that search are going to be copied along with it - as if the copied text were initiated a second time - because otherwise, all you'd copy would be "search your deck" without ever having the information (from the play restrictions) for what you are searching for.

So, all the cards you mention, if copied by Rickon, essentially trigger the original card text a second time (just without paying the costs; those are replaced by "paying the cost" for Rickon).

As for the bit about "choose an opponent" being a separate effect, it is and it isn't. Technically, it is an independent part of the overall card text that simply chooses a target (and not doing anything to that target) as its only resolution. But none of the rest of the card's text means anything (and would therefore fail) if you do not identify the target player by resolving that choice. Essentially, there is no practical difference between, "Choose a character. Kneel that character," and "Choose and kneel a character." It's simply a style point - one that tends to become more necessary the more complex a card's text is.