Cant find the answer in the book.

By kujoe1988, in Star Wars: Armada Rules Questions

I was playing a match this weekend and a questions came up.

he was attacking my corvette and rolled hit hit crit hit, blank, blank. I used my evade token for him to re roll his crit. He rolled an accuracy. My question is this now that he rolled the Accuracy after I made him re roll can he stop me from using my other token brace? or can that only happen in the initial roll? I played it as her can cancel my token but he seemed very unsure by that. Thoughts??

Check out the back of the RRG, it has a handy list for the order of events during an attack.

To summarize:

1) Declare Target

2) Roll dice

3) Resolve attack effects (rerolls, accuracy, spend/add dice etc)

4) Spend defense tokens

5) Apply Damage

Since your evade token is used in step 4, he can't use that new accuracy result, since accuracy is used in step 3.

(Side note, your corvette should have a redirect rather than a brace)

I think that actually yes, the attacker should be able to utilise the accuracy result. I really hope we get an FAQ on this as I think thematically the rules as read are not really in the spirit of the game.

With Evade, its allows you to cancel a dice at long range, so its a dead cert that you get a benefit which is great.

At medium range though its a reroll on a single dice.

When asking an attacker to re-roll a dice, you are taking a gamble, that the result might be better than the one they had originally, the same, or worse. Where the player turns it to their advantage of course is in the choice of the dice that have already been rolled, so naturally you will choose one that is most disadventagous to you.

The ideal result of course is going from a crit or a hit to a blank, but blue dice don't have blanks, so in my opinion thats part of the difficult choice you have to make if you ask an opponent to re-roll a blue dice rather than a red dice. If an opponent rerolls a blue hit or crit and then gets an accuracy under that interpretation of the rules, it is effectively creating a "blank" result on the dice (which shouldnt exist) rather than just getting a "second chance" on a result.

Edited by MaverickNZ

Hi Maverick, that may be what you would like, but the rules are clear in that is not how it works.

You are past the step in which Accuracy result are spent. There is no reason to believe that you'd go back to that step after utilizing Defense Tokens.

Any re-roll into an Accuracy result will mean an un-spent Accuracy result.

I see both sides of this. I would think that you should be able to spend it but then again it is past that point in the list. . . hmmmm

Why would you be able to spend it if past the step in which you do so?

Should you also be able to use a ConFire after the opponent has spent defense tokens as well?

This is a very clear cut ruling with zero ambiguity. It's right there in the rules.

By forcing the player to reroll a dice it could be argued that it is going back to step 2, therefore step 3 will apply (resolving accuracy) on the new dice pool. So yes, it could apply.

By forcing the player to reroll a dice it could be argued that it is going back to step 2, therefore step 3 will apply (resolving accuracy) on the new dice pool. So yes, it could apply.

Does it say that you go back to step three?

Does it need to go back for anything necessary (that is anything except spending accuracy)?

Do you also believe that you get to use a concentrate fire token to reroll that die or another die, or add a die after all because you are back in step three?

Sorry, I do not think it can be argued in any way that has even the slightest basis in rules as written.

If you are re-rolling a dice, then according to the attack steps then it is step 2 - rolling attack dice.

The next step in the process is step 3 again, which would only be open to the changes from the individual dice being rerolled.

Concentrate fire is completely different because it is resolved after the initial dice roll by the attacker and using an evade to re-roll is just revisiting a single roll of an existing dice. The rest of the attack would be "locked in" as such that you cant modify it, because the card is only specifying a reroll of a single dice (nominated by the defender).

Likewise you wouldnt be able to re-use accuracies again that had already been used because they are "spent" at the time of use i.e. removed from the pool the first time around to deny tokens but that denial would remain in effect for the duration of the attack.

It is no different from if you rerolled a red dice with a hit, and it became two hits, you have to deal with the negative outcome. That sets a precident that if you reroll a dice, you have to follow what it is, so if you get an accuracy that it should also have an effect.

Rolling is different to re-rolling.

You roll in step 2, you re-roll in step 3.

If you are re-rolling a dice, then according to the attack steps then it is step 2 - rolling attack dice.

The next step in the process is step 3 again, which would only be open to the changes from the individual dice being rerolled.

Concentrate fire is completely different because it is resolved after the initial dice roll by the attacker and using an evade to re-roll is just revisiting a single roll of an existing dice. The rest of the attack would be "locked in" as such that you cant modify it, because the card is only specifying a reroll of a single dice (nominated by the defender).

Likewise you wouldnt be able to re-use accuracies again that had already been used because they are "spent" at the time of use i.e. removed from the pool the first time around to deny tokens but that denial would remain in effect for the duration of the attack.

It is no different from if you rerolled a red dice with a hit, and it became two hits, you have to deal with the negative outcome. That sets a precident that if you reroll a dice, you have to follow what it is, so if you get an accuracy that it should also have an effect.

It does not set the precedence. Damage is only counted in the step after spending defense tokens. So using/suffering the "new" result does not require you to go back to a previous step.

And there is a difference. The difference being that an accuracy result is something that was spent before resolving defense tokens and damage is something that will be resolved after spending defense tokens.

Also if you were going back to step 2, then it would need to spell out that you cannot use the other parts of step 3. It does not spell this out. The limit you posit on not getting to spend a concentrate fire token is an assumption not in the rules.

And the limit does not need to be in the rules, because rerolling the dice does not take you back to step 2 or 3.

You've got to be kidding me.

You have no reason to believe that spending an Evade token is send you back steps in the Attack Resolution steps. Why would it. You have an entire step in which you spend Defense Tokens, it's during that step thier effects trigger, when they are spent. Why would you not just resolve thier effects within the step designated for thier effects to be triggered and either immediately resolve or create a last condition that will resolve when damage is totalled.

You can use part of Step 3 (Spend Accuracy) but not the rest of it? Now you are just making stuff up.

This is one most convoluted readings of the rules yet.

Edited by ScottieATF

how about a concentrate fire

you roll a concentrate fire dice or card effects as a "modify dice" section in step 3 [resolve attacks]

you are "rolling an attack" per say that is CLEARLY!!!! not in step 2 [roll attack dice]

what I do not understand is the comment under DICE ICONS

(5th bullet point)

"If players are instructed to roll dice for a purpose other than an attack, the icons on the die have no inherent effects" [what does that even mean?]

"If players are instructed to roll dice for a purpose other than an attack, the icons on the die have no inherent effects" [what does that even mean?]

Only thing I can think of, is that they're saying accuracy, <crit>, <hit> ect... don't actually mean anything in of themselves. They are only to be compared to whatever result the effect calls for.

For example in X-Wing there's crit's that have you roll a die and on a <hit> you can flip the card face down. The <hit> doesn't mean anything in of itself, it's just a way of seeing if you rolled the correct 'number'.

The first 5 steps in verbatim quote:

ATTACK RESOLUTION

To perform an attack with a squadron or ship, proceed through the following steps:

1. Declare Target: Declare a target that is inside the firing arc and at attack range of the attacking squadron or hull zone. Declare the attacking and/or defending hull zone, if any.

2. Roll Attack Dice: Gather and roll the attack dice appropriate for the attack’s range and the armament being used.

3. Resolve Attack Effects: Spend [Accuracy] icons and resolve effects that modify dice.

4. Spend Defense Tokens: The defender can spend one or more of its defense tokens.

5. Resolve Damage: The attacker can resolve one critical effect. Then the defender suffers damage equal to

the number of F icons. If the both the attacker and defender are ships, the number of E icons is added to the damage total.

Simple solution, brace before you evade.....

There is no need for that solution.

Simple solution, brace before you evade.....

I do not think it does, what you think it does.

Brace does not "remove half the dice" or anything of the kind that would give you a benefit by bracing first.

In step 5 of the attack procedure you form a sum of all damage generated by (by that point remaining) dice. If you previously used a brace token against this attack, this sum is then halfed. Otherwise its effect is utterly and completely independent of what dice are still in the pool and what other effects like criticals they may have. It only touches the "sum" not the dice.

While Brace Tokens are spent during step four, their actual effect does not happen before step 5. So, you cannot even use the effect of brace before the effect of evade, since evade is fully resolved within step 4. You can declare it first, but it doesn't make a difference.

Edited by chrisdk

I don't think the attacker would get to spend it. There's no indication that using evade to force a reroll brings you back to the previous modify dice step of the attack. Still probably needs a FAQ entry though. As for using brace beforehand that totally works and is a good workaround for the defender until a ruling is given. If you've already exhausted the defense token the attacker cannot go back and "undo" what you've done. It already happened and the effect will take place during the next step of the attack.

I don't think the attacker would get to spend it. There's no indication that using evade to force a reroll brings you back to the previous modify dice step of the attack. Still probably needs a FAQ entry though. As for using brace beforehand that totally works and is a good workaround for the defender until a ruling is given. If you've already exhausted the defense token the attacker cannot go back and "undo" what you've done. It already happened and the effect will take place during the next step of the attack.

Ah ... I understand what is meant with "use brace beforehand" now ... thanks.

I know this thread is a few days old but... How about this way of looking at it. Just suppose instead of him using his defence token you somehow rolled 4 accuracies? Can those of you that think in this situation now that it can be 'used' as it's now been rolled tell me how you would intend to do so if you'd originally rolled 4 of them? You can only use 3; 1 for each of his defence tokens. So the 4th is just - 'bad luck' and still becomes a miss. So my take on this is bad luck; you missed.

Yup. All accuracy and no hits would be an unfortunate roll.

Yup. All accuracy and no hits would be an unfortunate roll.

Challenge accepted!