Ran into this question during our game tonight:

Saruman is alone in Orthanc. The Free People Player played the card "The Ents Awake: Entmoot". The Free People player believed this would eliminate Saruman, since there were no units left in Orthanc after the play of the card. His argument: How could Saruman actually be safer with no units guarding him than he would be surrounded with Uruk-Hai?

The Shadow Player countered with: Since there were no units in Orthanc to begin with, the card could not be played.

How do y'all handle this situation?

TK

PS We decided the nasty old wizard dies in this situation.

TK

Base game I assume? Saruman dies. I think it might be found in the FAQ (at work, can't check).

P.S. Always check the FAQ first, even if the answer isn't there .

Yes, basic game, and yes, it's not in the FAQ.

However, this is one I believe did NOT need to be in the FAQ. I think it's obvious an unprotected Saruman should be easier to kill than one with loads of Orc bodyguards.

Thanks!

TK

Krieghund in action over on BGG:

www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1617455#1617455

Yep, Saruman dies.

To refute the other side's argument - the card has play conditions listed on it. "Units in Orthanc" isn't one of the play conditions, therefore it can be played.

As per the rules: "It can happen that the effects of an Event card cannot be fully applied. In this case, the card can still be played and its effects are applied to the maximum extent possible." (page 11).

Therefore, if you play the card without any units in Orthanc, the first part of the card cannot be applied, but the second one can, and Saruman dies.

Tim Kelly said:

Tim, don't mean to undermine your searching skills, but:

"Q. Can Saruman survive if he is alone in Orthanc when an FP
army enters the Orthanc Region, thereby retaining his extra
action die for the Shadow? The rules state that lone Characters
can’t be killed by enemy armies.

A. If Saruman is alone in Orthanc and a Free Peoples army
moves into Orthanc, Saruman is not eliminated (just as any other
character would not be eliminated in a similar situation), but
remains in the Region.

As a consequence, the Isengard mustering power (Voice of
Saruman) would not be usable anymore: no units can be
recruited in Orthanc. However Isengard Elite units will still
count as Leaders and the extra Action die provided by Saruman
will remain in the Action Dice pool of the Shadow player.

Saruman would be removed if any Ent card is played as an
event. " (FAQ, p. 14)

D'oh! You underminer, you! Thanks!

TK