Hello, I picked up Dark Heresy two days ago and I've been testing it out with my roommate and fellow gamer to see if we understand the rules. The only hiccough we've encountered so far is with Close Combat. We were sparring one another's characters -- he has an Arbitrator and I have a Psyker -- and the question of dodging and parrying kept coming up. We were both using swords and doing basic half-turn attacks. This is how we were interpreting the rules.

Player A rolls a d100 and if he scores below his Weapon Skill, then he hits.

Before Player A rolls damage, Player B rolls an Agility test to see if he dodges out of the way.

The roll must be equal to or less than half of his Agility because Player B has not trained Dodge.

If Player B succeeds, then he dodges out of the way, if he fails, then he makes a Parry test.

To make a Parry test, Player B must roll below his Weapon Skill, if he does, then he parries the blow.

If Player B succeeds at either his Dodge or his Parry test, then he takes no damage. If he fails either then he takes damage according to Player A's weapon damage plus strength modifier. Player A also gets to attack again because he is doing half-turn basic attacks. The above steps are repeated again with Player B getting the chance to dodge or parry the blow.

Is this actually how combat functions? Or must players choose to either Dodge or to Parry? Can they only do each once per round? Does the player need to get a better score on either Dodge or Parry in order to get out of the way of the incoming attack, e.g. Player A rolls a 15 to attack, Player B must then roll a 14 or below in order to dodge or parry it?

Any help would be appreciated, thank you.

Each round you get one reaction you can use to make a dodge or a parry attempt, but not both.

There are two talents, Step Aside and Wall of Steel that let you make a second dodge or parry roll each round. But you can only attempt one against any incomming attack. So if you have wall of steel and fail the dodge, you don't get to attempt to parry. So these talents are only useful when you are outnumbered (don't worry, that should happen regularly).

Core rulebook page 188 stats that you can't take the same half-action twice in a turn, meaning you don't get to make two attacks without specific talents. But there are some other options you could try like aim or all out attack.

Okay, you guys have it off in a few areas.

First, you can only preform the same action ONCE per round -this includes the Basic Attack action. So, if you spend your first half action to preform a basic attack, you will have to think of something else to do with your second action. However, it's advisable that you think of something that will strengthen your basic attack with your first half action such as Aim (+10 to your next attack, in this case a +10 to your WS to hit your foe), Maneuver (to get said opponent on shaky ground giving them a negative to their dodge or some such) etc. Barring what certain Talents will do, you can only ever attack ONCE per round and you can only ever preform the same half action once per round (1 attack, one maneuver, one half move, one feint, etc).

Second, barring certain talents, you only have ONE reaction per round. Dodging and parrying takes up a reaction which means, barring certain talents, you can only dodge or parry once per round. Once you dodge a blade aimed at your head, you will be unable to dodge or parry any further attacks against you until the next round, etc.

However, what you score to dodge or parry only matters if you're dodging a semi or full auto fire in which case each DoS scored on the doge will negate one additional hit scored on the full or semi auto attack. Other then that, the degree you succeeded at with a doge or parry doesn't matter, only that you succeed. So, if player A (who has a WS of 30) scores a 26 to hit (a success), you can still parry or doge such a hit with a 42 assuming you have a WS or Doge score >= 42.

Hope this helps.

Edit: basicaly what Bilateralrope said...

So these talents are only useful when you are outnumbered (don't worry, that should happen regularly).

...or when your attacker has certain talents that allow him to make multiple attacks in one turn, like Swift or Lightning Attack. Or when he's using two weapons. Or...

Fantastic, thank you all for your prompt explanations.

Graver said:

That's not quite right, you can only use one reaction against a single attack (dodge or parry), but you are usually entitled to both a parry and dodge per turn, as long as they are against different attacks.

That's not quite right, you can only use one reaction against a single attack (dodge or parry), but you are usually entitled to both a parry and dodge per turn, as long as they are against different attacks.

Er.... no. Graver and Bilateralrope (wonder where that nick comes from...) have it right. You have one 'reaction' type of action. Parrying or dodging costs one reaction (or a use of Wall of Steel or Step Aside). Result: You have either one dodge or one parry per turn.

Cifer said:

My mistake, It seems we have done this wrong the whole time. Was the rules different in Warhammer fantasy perchance?

This makes Guarded attack a little less interesting and full defensive stance a bit more.

Cifer said:

I tried to sign up for some gaming service years ago. The name I wanted was taken, so the service suggested a few names I could use. Bilateralrope was among them.

At the risk of thread jacking, what is the effect of having both Wall of Steel and Step Aside? Does this leave you with two reactions that you can use either dodge or parry with for either. Or does it give an additional parry and an additional dodge reaction for a total of three evasion reactions in a round?

Wall of Steel gives an additional reaction that can only be used to parry and Step Aside does the same for dodge. So if you had both you would effectively have 3 reactions per round, but only 1 could be used for either parry or dodge.

At least thats how we've been interpreting the talents

Huh... never really thought it would work like that but I just reread both the talents and.... well that's some seariously strange wording. It's not exactly admiting to letting you do 3 reactions in a round 1 being parry and 1 being dodge, but it certainly implies it...**** ambiguos wording.

I must admit I'm sort of on the fence of this use of it.. originally I though it was if your reaction for the round was a dodge or parry (depending on which one or both you have) you would be able to perform another one of that action in the same round... but I sorta like the 3 reaction thing, it would really make higher level chars such as inquisitors themselves that much stronger and give them that great untouchable vibe.

Considering that few careers even have access to both and that that access happens around the level you start to fight stuff with 4 or more attacks per round, it generally balances out.

DarkWatcher said:

You get 3 reactions:

- One can only be used to dodge.

- One can only be used to parry.

- One can be used for any reaction.

Bilateralrope said:

Yes, what Bilateralrope said

I'm just here to agree with the three reaction rules, for balance and cool factor, as well as it seems to read those ways.

It doesn't hurt to bump the thread for some people who might need it, either.

If a character has two weapon weilder and swift attack, can they then make 4 attacks per round? Can attacks such as All Out Attack be used in conjunction with Dual Strike?

The interaction of two-weapon-wielding and multiple attacks is explained in the errata.