I suppose the subject title says it all...

If someone/something attacks you with a natural weapon or even brass knuckles, and you successfully parry with a weapon with a Power Field what happens? The rules state that there is a 75% chance of destroying the attackers weapon if it doesn't have the same quality (Power Field). Has this been addressed? If so, where.

Cheers.

Mr.Fluffles said:

Since natural weapons is actually body parts, I'd say no for balance reasons if nothing else. To destroy such a weapon would be equal to destroying the hand or arm of a man, so an appropriate critical would be required and not just a parry.

The real question is, how brutal of a GM to you want to be? Or how brutal is your GM? Logically if the powerfield of a power weapon is going to turn a chain axe into rubble, it's going to be able to do the same to a hand or claw (Unless of course they have some crazy hide that resists the field blah blah blah ;D).

Strick rules interp... I would say no on the same reasoning Friend of Dork gave, it's a body part. Limb damage in DH is covered under critical effects and next to no-where else.

Now thats not saying you can't do it, especially if your the Gm! Basically your looking at Rules vs RP, your choice. Rules lean towards no and the RP (fluff as some would call it) of the effect IMO would lean towards yes.

How about a Happy Medium?

If the attacking weapon is a claw, arm, or some such, and said weapon is parried by a power weapon, then there's a 75% chance that the power weapon will do damage to that hit location as if it had struck it with a standard attack.

I was going to suggest something similar. But possibly without the strength bonus? After all, you're (probably) not actually hitting it with the full force of the blade.

Cardinalsin said:

Use the attackers strength bonus since they are the one using their strength for the attack.

Mmm even then, once they hit that powerfield and realize it they are going to probably pull the attack one would think. Maybe it would be to late, guess that part is up to each GM as usual ;D Sounds cool to me, I may use this.

If you are going with that then remember that most of the creatures don't have the fast attribute when they probably should. If a hand held weapon can have it then hand that is weapon (any that supposed to be sharp and stabby anyway) might well do too.

Of course I thought that when I was looking at the genestealer but then I figured that they have powerweapons for claws anyway.

karn987 said:

True. So their SB shouldn't come into play at full strength, maybe it won't take part at all. But since it would take them some time to realise that they have hit a power feild and pull back, time in which the momentum from their attack is moving it into the blade, they should at least take some damage from the power field.

It is our game groups belief that with hand weapons (unarmed, brass knuckles) you cannot parry a melee weapon...

Nor would you unless you have more than 90 or so insanity points. If I hear the humming of the power sword I would try to dodge rather than block it with my bare fists. Off course this comes from our many years of World of Darkness were brawlers cannot parry meleerers.

As for natural weapons... unless the creature has improved natural weapons I would say the are destroyed.

Giant Bear creature with 1 foot long talons tries to parry the power sword and ends up with the claws cut off.... makes sense to me. It still has a hand/paw but it is no longer a natural weapon and counts as an unarmed attack!

arcona said:

Actually, you have it reversed... mostly. It's a very natural rational reaction to shield ones head and body from harm using ones own arms and hands. This is what results in defensive wounds on a stabbing victims forearms and hands -they were trying to shield their head and body blocking the (usually) knife blade with their hands and arms as a last resort. Now, granted, in game terms, you should just dodge, but in reality, it's a natural thing to put your limb in harms way as opposed to harm befalling your head or trunk. If they want to parry with their bare hands, let them... just apply the damage to their arm as opposed to what ever body part the hit roll specified ;-)

As for natural weapons parring power weapons and the issue of SB, how about skew for simplicity and have the weapon just do base damage to the blocking limb. Nice and simple and should still do the trick

arcona said:

Using that line of reasoning, you could say that everyt ime you attack you have a 75% chance of destroying your opponent (or the body part you struck), and yet the rules indicate a paltry 1d10+5 (for power sword), surely a defensive parry would do even less.

What if the defender also has a shield (+15 parry), does every parry still destroy the weapon (or limb)? (actually after further consideration, I would probably just subtract any additional benefits not granted by the power weapon or weapon skill from the 75% chance, so a successful power with a power sword and a shield would only yield a 50% chance of destruction).

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For the sake of simplicity, I would probably go with one of following: automatically apply 1/2 damage (no str bonus but full penetration) to the limb, or allow an average toughness test to avoid incapacitating the offending body part.

I am pretty sure that the paragraph for Natural Weapons says you can't parry with them. I would call a no go with the brass knucks parrying a power sword. Also I would put it up to the GM as far as what can parry certain weapons. I did have my chainsword parried by a knife... I think it is a little no bueno but that is how the GM wanted to play it.

Well if you were going to parry a Power Weapon or something almost as nasty, say a chain weapon and you only had your fists or brass knuckles you hit hte wrist or arm. It's a common martial artist thing to not strike the weapon but strike faster then the attacker and hit the actual arm or wrist to parry the attack. It essentially is the same thing. But again, you would need to be a trained fighter to pull that off effectively. If you don't like unarmed or essentiall hand type weapons (brass or spiked knuckles) to parry, make a talent that lets you do it with them. It would reflect that level of training and quick reaction to nail the part of the weapon or body that isn't going to kill you if you hit it.

Khorne-ucopia said:

That's because even if you do manage to parry, it just means that you were hit in the arm instead of the body part the blow was going for. Are there any armours where the arms have more AP than another body part after taking a power weapons AP into account ?

Graver said:

That is a nice option.

My friends and I were just having this same discussion after game on Thursday and it turns out, parry only works with a drawn melee weapon. Natural weapons says "the creature counts as being armed even when it's not... it cannot parry with natural weapons, nor can it be disarmed" So, no kung fu gimmicks parrying lightsabers in this setting.

I think as far as what happens when you parry a natural weapon/unarmed attack with a power fielded weapon, for simplicity's sake, I'd go with a 75% chance they take damage as though you hit them... because you did hit them with it, in the location of the unarmed attack/natural weapon (because unarmed attacks are not soley punches). It pretty much goes to say, if you're fighting an opponent with a powersword... don't try to headbutt them unless you're absolutely sure they're outta parries.