Samantha Grace says
Each player needs an additional story card in order to win the game.
Now it is possible to win the game by having the other player run out of cards. If Samantha is in play, would it be necessary to have a story and have the opponent run out of cards?
Given that the wording states " additional story card", I would say that it's referring only to the story card win condition. Other methods of winning (such as the decking method you're hoping for) should be unaffected.
It only goes for story card wins.
Running out of cards mean you are eliminated from the game, making the other player a winner by default.
Hmm... The rules state
If at any point a player has no cards remaining in his deck, he is immediately eliminated from the game and his opponent wins the game.
The second part says "opponent wins the game..." Samanatha says you need an extra story card to win the game.
These are kind of contradictory - I guess it has to be clarified with a FAQ or official response. I think you guys are right, but I could imagine someone making the argument that Samantha's ability applies regardless of the win condition.
Is there some sort of formal analysis that we can apply to clarify this without requiring a ruling?
If only one player remains, they immediately win by default. Any other way wouldn't make sense.
TheProfessor said:
Hmm... The rules state
If at any point a player has no cards remaining in his deck, he is immediately eliminated from the game and his opponent wins the game.
The second part says "opponent wins the game..." Samanatha says you need an extra story card to win the game.
These are kind of contradictory - I guess it has to be clarified with a FAQ or official response. I think you guys are right, but I could imagine someone making the argument that Samantha's ability applies regardless of the win condition.
Is there some sort of formal analysis that we can apply to clarify this without requiring a ruling?
If the player controlling Samantha is eliminated from the game, then her effect is no longer in effect. Rules then default back to base rules and not golden rules and the opponent wins.
Dark Young said:
If the player controlling Samantha is eliminated from the game, then her effect is no longer in effect. Rules then default back to base rules and not golden rules and the opponent wins.
Right, but if the player controlling Samantha is NOT the player eliminated from the game (I'm thinking Samantha is a useful card in a mill deck), then Samantha's ability continues.
I supposed even if her ability comes to play, because the opponent is eliminated it is trivial for the single player to win 1 story. So even if the non-eliminated player doesn't automatically win, they will in a few turns with no opposition.
TheProfessor said:
Dark Young said:
If the player controlling Samantha is eliminated from the game, then her effect is no longer in effect. Rules then default back to base rules and not golden rules and the opponent wins.
Right, but if the player controlling Samantha is NOT the player eliminated from the game (I'm thinking Samantha is a useful card in a mill deck), then Samantha's ability continues.
I supposed even if her ability comes to play, because the opponent is eliminated it is trivial for the single player to win 1 story. So even if the non-eliminated player doesn't automatically win, they will in a few turns with no opposition.
I've just imagined a ludicrous situation where player 1 has Cave Mouth in play and player 2 has Samantha Grace.
Player 1 wins three stories, removing them all from play, then he gets milled.
Since none can win, both player get awarded "the stupidest draw ever"
I don't see how that could really happen - the third story player 1 won would be replaced (Cave Mouth only stops stories from being replaced if there's at least one unwon non-conspiracy story), and then he'd get decked and player 2 would win.
I really think people are reading too much into Samantha Grace's ability. She only adds an "additional" story required to win by completing stories ; other methods remain unaffected.
From a common sense viewpoint: CoC is a game of direct competition, where only one player can win. By nature of the format, any time you are left without any opponents, you automatically win by default. In essence, just about every game of this type in existence has a hidden win condition that states, "any time all your opponents have lost, you win" that can't be overriden.
The only exception that comes to mind is when card effects specifically say otherwise, such as Platinum Angel in Magic which states, "you can't lose the game and your opponents can't win the game."
Hall of "D'OH"! for me.