So I picked up my DH2 rulebook awhile back and have been playing around with character concepts for it. Something that bugs me though is that there doesn't seem to be an easy way of getting the character I want.

As an example: Let's say I want to make a Sherlock Holmes-esque character. Someone with high Intelligence and Perception, and let's say decent Agility as well (all sorts of sleight of hand, picking locks and coming up with really good disguises or sneaking around). This means I am looking in particular for the Finesse, Agility, Fieldcraft, Perception, Knowledge and Intelligence Aptitudes and then whatever last one is left over.

Or as a second example , a friend of mine wants to make an intellectual fighter. So let's say, he wants decent Ballistic, Agility and Intelligence, without losing out too much on Strength or Weapon Skill. So he will probably want Finesse, Agility, Knowledge, Intelligence, Ballistic Skill, Offense, and then one more of whatever.

Is there an easy way to just track down which Homeworld/Role/Background combination has these aptitudes that I'm missing somewhere, as opposed to going role-by-role, and going: "Hmm... nope, that's missing an aptitude" and playing around with different combinations until I finally get what I'm looking for?

It just gives a bit of a feel like it's actually MUCH harder to make the character you really want in DH2 compared to DH1.

I'm asking this mainly because after about an hour of working through the rulebook, my friend and I /still/ have yet to figure out how to make these two characters and we are wondering if we're missing an easy way that says: "This aptitude is offered here".

We solved that dilemma by letting the players choose their aptitudes freely: Choose 7, max 3 professional, not both finesse and offence.

(the last bit is because finesse and offence each gives two cheap characteristics).

Home world, background and role was now a lot more of a role play choice than trying to match up the desired aptitudes.

Or you could...play a system that lets you build exactly what you want instead.

Further amusing tidbit: It would take 10 minutes to create these characters in DH1, about 20 in shadowrun and GURPS....and about five in Call of Cthulu.

Your best bet would be to talk to your GM about swapping out some Aptitudes here and there. However, bear in mind that Sherlock Holmes never started out as he is now. He would have started from somewhere, becoming the Greatest PI to exist wouldn't just happen and it won't happen for your character either. Figure out the core essentials of your concept, the Intelligence and Perception. You expand out from these, Sherlock always has his Watson and your character ought not to be too different. Perhaps talk with another player in the party and agree to effectively play the Duo, cover each others backs.

The way skill/characteristic costs worked in the original beta gives you exactly what you're asking for. Each class had X cheap options, Y medium-cost, and Z expensive. Didn't like the ones in the book? Make your own following the same formula.

But since we're saddled with the sh*tty aptitude system, just choose them or swap out a few. Everyone should have the same number of characteristic and professional aptitudes (psykers excluded) but I forget what the mix is .

Aye, I've not got the book to hand but if some kind chap could post the mix of Aptitudes then an effort could be begun to homebrew it. Cannibalise what was used in Beta 1 and we're off to a roaring start.

For your character, go with Hive World, Adeptus Administratum, Assassin. The second Perception becomes Intelligence. All your desired aptitudes, plus a weapon or ballistic skill.

Your friend can't do everything he wants. The closest is probably Highborn/Arbites/Desperado or Forgeworld/Arbites/Desperado; each of which can get you Finesse, Offence, Defence, Intelligence, Ballistic Skill, Agility and Fellowship.

You can't get all of Offence, Knowledge and Finesse with the current backgrounds and roles.

Or you could...play a system that lets you build exactly what you want instead.

Further amusing tidbit: It would take 10 minutes to create these characters in DH1, about 20 in shadowrun and GURPS....and about five in Call of Cthulu.

No... those are not even possible in 1e. 1e is a terribly hand holding super rigid class system with even more rigid advancement. 2e allows a custom character from the get go. It's just a mix and match of the options, which is a good thing and allows for amazingly robust characters.

Sure CoC and the other systems you mentioned might be. But those aren't 40k, and a lot of people don't want to go through the work to port a different system to a setting, we prefer systems made for a setting.

EDIT: As for general ease. My impression is that people's views on this CG system are very reflected by their means of creating a character. For people who have a concept in mind, it's generally better. For those who just want a quick let's play with guided advancement and want to build the concept from a pre-made point... different.

I'm confused. How are these characters not possible in 1e?

I don't know how you could even make the first one. Maybe Arbites, but even then you're forced into a lot of things that are far from ideal.

While the second one could be done through the right career, but you still would have more expensive Intelligence raising and the likes.

In 2e, you can make it so what they specialize in IS the cheap stuff that's easiest to raise. In 1e, you've got what, 8 choices and from there have to deal with a ridiculous path preventing you from buying certain things until arbitrary points. Compared to trees in 2e you can buy down as you want.

First one is Adept or Scum, possibly with an alternate rank. Arbite and tech priest work as well, depending on where you come from.

Second one is arbite or assassin.

You'll generally be in the affordable spectrum for both there.

Yet 2e does both far better, as I said, allowing you to actually have exactly what you want instead of needing to hope someone has a book with an alternate rank. Or cribbing.

And as I mentioned, also lets you take talents and such that help further your concept a lot easier and earlier...

and let's not even get me started on how ridiculously stupid Interrogators and Inquisitors are handled in 1e, by the book!

Yet 2e does both far better, as I said, allowing you to actually have exactly what you want

Apparently not, as one of the responses on this thread has explicitly noted that the character my friend is looking for is impossible to make as far as the system is concerned.

Even moreso that he wanted to make his character hail from a Feral World, as part of the concept.

Sure, it needs a few new options. And who knows what there'll be with the next book. That's adding a lot more. And by the time we have as many books out as 1e did? The sky will probably be the limit.

But compared to where DH 1e was at this point? And suddenly there's a TON more options than there was.

Sorry, still not convinced. This is by far the more robust system, even at this stage, than 1e ever got to be. And I almost guarantee that even sacrificing on one or two of those options you mentioned you're still probably in better shape than by going with the ones in 1e which has hard limits. Certainly a cheaper all around XP cost.

I do apologize for not being able to cite exacts, I am visiting family for the holiday and 200 miles from my books. So I can't go and do any actual examples, but hopefully in the next couple days. But the simple fact remains you can probably still get MORE good XP 'totals' to reach the same ends through getting most of what your friend wants than you could via the 1e system of hard limits.

But compared to where DH 1e was at this point? And suddenly there's a TON more options than there was.

Sorry, still not convinced. This is by far the more robust system, even at this stage, than 1e ever got to be. And I almost guarantee that even sacrificing on one or two of those options you mentioned you're still probably in better shape than by going with the ones in 1e which has hard limits. Certainly a cheaper all around XP cost.

We may have to agree to disagree on this point, at least until further supplements are released. I actually found it easier to fit a character to the concept in DH1, because despite the rigid system, that same rigid system actually made the whole process a lot smoother. In fact my friend is RUNNING his intellectual fighter in DH1-- just running an Imperial Guard commander, with a couple of Elite Advances. Yes, he had to pay through the nose a bit with Intelligence there, but "fortunately" the Guardsman career in DH1 was so underpowered, with such few options that he wasn't really giving much up there (which I will concede as a weakness of the DH1 system in that "tier distinctions" were a lot more clearcut, with Psykers at the top and Guardsman at the bottom).

Also you spend less time playing with the system to get the character you want. I want to run a Sherlock Holmes character? Hive World Adept or Arbitrator. Shell out a few more XP for Agility if I want to run the super disguise-y Holmes, but other than that, I can have that character prepped and ready to play in all of 20 minutes, compared to DH2, where the Aptitude system seems needlessly convoluted and restricting at the same time while giving the illusion of being a completely open-ended and free system, when all it really seems to accomplish is develop highly specialized characters, as opposed to generalists, or characters with "conflicting" skills, while potentially compromising a characters background and fluff.

EDIT: And as a sheer note of curiousity, is it even possible to have a non-Psyker character with 100 XP Willpower Advances? Astra Telepathica seems to be the only source of the Psyker Aptitude, and while it doesn't necessarily REQUIRE you to play a Psyker as an Astra Telepathica, it seems pretty obvious that is the sole purpose of that background, and I think you'd have a tricky time explaining how your character was a former member of that group without actually being a Psyker themself.

Eh, just sounds like a 'different strokes for different folks' sort of thing to me. As for me, 1e was... absolutely intolerably limiting. As in, 90 percent of what I thought of was something I could not make in a way that fit the system (Especially with a strictly literal GM as I am likely to play under for whom something like 'guardsman' or 'arbites' literally means you ARE playing a Guardsman or Arbites, not something similar to such).

I just hate how hand holding 1e. so for me it is simply awful. Now that 1e is out I would never even consider playing it again style awful.

Not actually 100% sure how we ended up on this tangent anyways. I was mostly making the thread for help easily organizing Aptitudes and checking in to confirm my concern that yes, certain aptitude combinations are impossible, making some character concepts unworkable. Which was very disappointing to find out.

Personally I don't dislike either system. I prefer DH1 between the two (though I've admittedly played very little of DH2), despite the giant holes in the system, mostly because I can create the character I want without having five characteristics cost 500 XP and only one cost 100.

EDIT: And as a sheer note of curiousity, is it even possible to have a non-Psyker character with 100 XP Willpower Advances? Astra Telepathica seems to be the only source of the Psyker Aptitude, and while it doesn't necessarily REQUIRE you to play a Psyker as an Astra Telepathica, it seems pretty obvious that is the sole purpose of that background, and I think you'd have a tricky time explaining how your character was a former member of that group without actually being a Psyker themself.

Your character could well be a retainer. The nature of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica has never been touched on in great detail. Your character could be a liaison for the Inquisition or some manner of Nascent Psyker Witch Finder whose skin prickles when a witch is nearby.

The majority of non-psyker members of the telepathica usually accompany a psyker exclusively. They're called the "sisters of silence" and not allowed to speak once out of novice status. The rest are likely some form of clerical rank, because the ecclessiarchy watches the Adeptus Astra with hawk eyes and somebody needs to actually be able to preach for the sisters and instruct them in their duties in ways the novices can understand. The occassional techpriest may work as well, but it's quite possible they have a similar attitude towards talking to outsiders. Essentially, everyone with access to astropaths and their training is a secret keeper of sorts.

The majority of non-psyker members of the telepathica usually accompany a psyker exclusively. They're called the "sisters of silence" and not allowed to speak once out of novice status. The rest are likely some form of clerical rank, because the ecclessiarchy watches the Adeptus Astra with hawk eyes and somebody needs to actually be able to preach for the sisters and instruct them in their duties in ways the novices can understand. The occassional techpriest may work as well, but it's quite possible they have a similar attitude towards talking to outsiders. Essentially, everyone with access to astropaths and their training is a secret keeper of sorts.

All Sisters of Silence are Untouchables however, they tend to be the ones that crew and guard the Black Ships. You could still be a Psyker-minder without being an untouchable of course, but Sisters of Silence are Untouchables.

Truth. I'd forgotten that DH2e actually had untouchable as a package!

though dh 2.0 untouchable is horrendous when compared to the lore

Or you could...play a system that lets you build exactly what you want instead.

Further amusing tidbit: It would take 10 minutes to create these characters in DH1, about 20 in shadowrun and GURPS....and about five in Call of Cthulu.

And hours in HERO System

Savage worlds should be quick to.

Wait, why would you want to play an inteligent fighter? So you can have your character hurl witty remarks at his oponents?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for playing against type and not every fighter is a barbarian, but if there is one universe in wich I'd go full on full berzerker chrono gladiator with the cognitive part of his brain replaced with a chainblade, then it would be the 40k universe.