I'd be surprised if this topic hasn't been beaten to death by forum veterans, so, y'know, any links to good threads would be appreciated (As pretty as FF's forum layout is, I just cannot ever get anything useful out of the search engine here...)

But, yeah... Nyarlathotep's a great big pussycat so I never play with him except occasionally with new players as an intro (any links to house rules folk have drawn up to make him harder would be appreciated to)

And yet I really love the Mask monsters, some of the coolest beasties in the game. So far, however, the only way to get them in game is using Nyarlathotep as the AO or using the Dark Pharaoh as Herald (and then you only get the one). Now, I've toyed with the idea of just throwing them in the cup regardless but that seems to disrespect their coolness and significance, especially considering how deep the monster cup is nowadays.

Anybody got any House Rules (preferably that fit thematically) wherein players can encounter them outside of fighting Nyarlabitchtep?

Put the Masks in a separate cup (kinda like what BGotW Herald does with hexagon monsters). Each time a monster surge happens, only draw from the Mask cup. If Mask cup is ever empty, Nyarlathotep wakes up ! Combined with the DP Herald (Nyarly gets +1 doomer for each Mask in play when he wakes up), might be "nice".

Okay, just cooked off that after reading the thread. As for playing GOOs, I got to play Nyarlathotep guaranteed once each rotation of the AH + DH GOOs (which could technically mean he might be first GOO in one rotation and the last in the next, so 22 games with no Nyarly). Still 31 games left with just the IH GOOs, after that Nyarly can again hit the scene. Only reason I redraw a GOO is if that GOO has already been used in this rotation or was used in the previous game, otherwise "you drew it, you play it". Since I'll seal gates with Clues even if Nyarly is 1 doomer away from waking, I have lost to him in final combat.

In the fan creations, I believe you'll find at least one use of Nyarlathotep as a Herald. You could use the Nyarlathotep Herald with another GOO.

I like the idea of a separate cup, perhaps drawing one Mask as the first monster placed during a surge or something similar. The Masks present two difficulties for me: first, like you say, they come up too rarely when placed in the regular cup. Second, (and more annoying) it's a pain to fish them out of the cup after the game is over. This is why I like the idea of a separate cup. I do think Nyarly needs a final battle boost though, as even with Epic Battle he's probably right up there as the easiest of Ancient Ones to face. I know some people either refuse to prepare for the Final Battle at all or chalk it up as a loss without playing it out, but my group plays every battle unless it's assured that we simply cannot win.

mattherobot said:

Just to note, I do go through the motions of final combat, draw if I "win", loss if I don't. But like against Nyarly, I don't hoard Clues even when he is 1 doomer away from waking. No Blessings at South Church against any. No shopping sprees against Abhoth, etc.

Dam said:

I guess it just depends on play style. When we started playing, final battle was something to be avoided as we usually lost. Then we figured out the "camp stores and prepare" route, which seemed to work a little too well on some base game AOs. Now we've basically settled into a mentality where winning by seals (or the rare closing victory) is the best outcome, but if it is obvious that we just can't do it, we begin the preparations. The trick is knowing when to start doing this -- too early and you might throw away the game, but too late and you might as well just go for any last shot at sealing you have.

Anyway, a bit off topic. Back on, I really would like to see Nyarlatothep get an update or something similar. Has anyone attempted the "Mask cup" variation? I'm not sure how it should work. Using one, like I mentioned earlier, might be too few. Dumping a bunch of Masks whenever there's a surge strikes me as a little wrong somehow as well though. It would make him one of the scarier AOs, if you were unlucky and got a lot of surges.

mattherobot said:

Sticking with my Mask cup idea, when a monster surge happens, draw half (round down) from the Mask Cup? Wouldn't solve my issues, since I've been getting ridiculously low amounts of surges. Will probably even out the curve the next time I randomly roll the BGotW Herald into the game, but oh well. How to get them into the game when there are no surges? IH added DOR to counter bounces on seals, maybe draw 1 from the Mask cup and place it in the street of that neighborhood (or maybe override the seal prevents monsters from appearing like Servants of Glaaki do and place it on the sealed location). If the Mask cup runs out, add a doomer for every Mask that should've been drawn? As for boosting final combat, increase Nyarly's combat rating by 1/2 of the Masks on the board (so 6 Masks, Nyarly is -7)? Maybe adjust his Lore check starting mod by the same amount?

Just throwing things out there.

If there's a final battle I like the idea of the investigators having to deal w/ the mask monsters before fighting him, kind of having to get through the avatars first.

mattherobot said:

With the Herald that I found, at the end of the first Mythos Phase, any investigator who has not traded that turn may take 2 clue tokens if he fights a random Mask monster. In addition, every investigator must fight a random Mask monster when the terror track hits 3, 6 and 9.

mattherobot said:

I tried a game recently in which a Mask monster was drawn and placed at every newly opened gate. Since there are 10 Masks and Narly has an 11 doom track I thought it was a fairly good fit. It made the game quite daunting though. I wasn't allowing the Masks to go back in the cup when the dimensional symbol was removed during a gate closing. Maybe that would make it less daunting, but maybe it would clear them out to fast.

I would like to see a version of this fleshed out, however. This seems like the easiest way to "fix" Narly and make him more of a challenge. He really needs something and the Masks a definitely the best thing he's got going for him.

My way of fixing Nyarly is very simple: no additional rules, just add lots and lots of homemade mask monsters to the monster cup. This has made him one of the most interesting, replayable, and powerful GOOs in the game. Of course, making your monsters is a little labor intensive. Here's a place to start.

placeboeffect said:

I've played a couple of games with Nyarly as a herald for an unknown Old One. I create a monster cup made up of all mask monsters and cultists. When a gate opens one of the monsters from the mask/cultist cup is added. Each time a mask monster comes out, add a doom token. Each time a mask monster is defeated, remove a doom token. In the games I've played, they were not endless so they could be captured and if the gate drew them back, they went into mask cup, but then the opportunity to defeat them and remove a doom token was gone. When Narly hit 9, a random Old One took his place with 9 doom tokens on it. If you could seal Nyarly away before 9, the investigators won but they couldn't fight Narly to defeat him ever.

It certainly was better than naked Nyarly but I think we won both games but only after the unknown Old One appeared.

mageith said:

I really like the sound of this. What did you do for surges, all drawn from the normal cup or half from the mask/cultist cup? Why did you chose 9 for the random GOO trigger? I mean it sounds like a reasonable number, I just wondered if there was a specific reason for that number.

placeboeffect said:

I was making a whole bunch of Ancient One heralds at the time and all were at 9 mostly because its one less than the quickest Old One (10). Surges were normal. Had to have some way of getting normal monsters into the board. It was mainly a way to use the masks and to make Nyarlathotep more into the herald which he is usually is.

I've used something similar to what Dam suggested most times I've played against Nyarlathotep. And I like Magieth's herald a lot.

I haven't tried, but recently suggested in another thread, something like a watered down version of placeboeffect's suggestion. Something like:

• put the masks on the GOO sheet. Whenever a gate is placed check if there is a mask with that dimension symbol on the sheet. If so place that mask as the first monster on the gate (it'll be the only monster if there are less than 5 players).
• Use the Moon masks as first monster in a surging gate
• I wouldn't make Masks endless in this set up, but wouldn't let them be kept as trophies either. Return to box if defeated.
• Start FB with +1 doom for each Mask on the board
• Masks still on the sheet should perhpas do something. Perhaps each mask still on the sheet will eat a clue at the start of the FB. Maybe even one per investigator? Not sure if this will have a desireable net effect on the FB (i.e. making it harder) or a negative impact by encouraging clue hoarding.

- Mariana the ex-nun cultist

I like Dan's idea, except that I wouldn't use a monster cup:

• When Nyarlathotep is the AO, always use the DP herald
• Mask monsters are spawn monsters, and placed on Nyarly's sheet (defeated monsters return there)
• When there's a monster surge, place the mask monster with the surging gate's symbol on that gate, unless it's already on the board (place crescent when there's a gate with circle)

...all in all very similar to Abhoth. If you own all big box expansions, there's a mask monster for each gate symbol, except there's no circle mask monster.

HëllRÆZØR said:

Really no circle mask?

How'd that happen?

- Mariana the ex-nun cultist

Ooh, I really like the Herald/Ancient One Nyarlathotep that's up there. Great work, Mageith.

I've done a few things about this. The first thing I tried was to put the Mask Monsters into the cup whenever I played against the Dark Pharoah. This makes the Dark Pharoah much cooler. Although, I only ever drew the Dark Pharoah himself in the few games I played this way, which I suppose is appropriate. The problem, as you may imagine, is that this cheapens Nyarlathotep by a lot.

I haven't played against Nyarlathotep or the Dark Pharoah in a while, since before I got Innsmouth. I'm starting to play all of the Ancient Ones again, though, so I am looking for something to pump him up. I may consider giving the "Herald" above a try, but my only concern is what I would say on the stats site, since I'm strange that way.

HëllRÆZØR said:

Uh...the Skinless One is the circle Mask.

www.boardgamegeek.com/image/502132

This is the herald I was talking about. It was made by dkw.

jgt7771 said:

Oops - looks like I forgot to update my data base. So there's one mask per gate symbol, and 2 for crescent. I guess I have to find a way to get those cresent masks into play, then...

Yeah, I thought I remembered seeing a circle Mask.

Well then if the Mask with that symbol is already down, then you put down a random crescent Mask.

OR

The crescent masks are added to the regular monster cup, for that extra randomness.

Problem solved

Tibs said:

Thanks, Tibs! I guess I'll combine those: The Shadowy Figure is drawn when the mask with the gate symbol is already on the board - to punish the players, and to keep them busy. The Black Man is put in the monster cup - you won't draw him too often, but if you do during an encounter you're probably surprised, and maybe devoured (he was the one who devours you when you fail, right?).

Ah, a compromise of my ideas. Clever!

Yes, The Black Man will devour you if you fail the luck check. He seems to be an appropriate random Mask. Shadowy Figure wouldn't be a good one to put into the regular cup because drawing him for "A monster appears!" would be a complete waste.

What about placing the crescent masks as an additional/replacement monster on "Witch Burning Anniversary" and other events that add monsters unconnected to gates?