In reading through most of the rules, I see you get paid based on your rank. I know this question will arise from my players, does the Imperium give them they gear they want or is this from the pay? I ask this only because since they are their employers, one would expect them to have the best gear. If not a profound explanation would be appreciated.

This comes up from time to time. To generalize, the response is "the salary table doesn't make much sense, but it's better than nothing."

The =I= definitely doesn't give rank 1 acolytes power armor -- one of the requirements of having the job is that you're able to provide for yourself. So most campaigns have a certain amount of "characters gain Thrones from whatever source to buy stuff". Whether those Thrones are given to them by the =I=, or by their "side jobs" varies.

In my campaign, the players are given nothing that is not directly required for their mission, with the exception of a bag of Thrones "for expenses". Eg, in Edge of Darkness, they were given the ID cards, the bio-sample kit, and the Thrones -- anything else they wanted, they bought. The exception might be an adventure like Shades of Twilight, where the players might be loaned just about anything that could be found on board the Navy ship. Not to keep, though.

That sounds plausible, but if anyone has some concrete decisions they made with their group that worked I would appreciate it. I have a few munchkins in my group and want to know "why" the Imperium wouldn't provide equipment. Also I didn't "get" that being an acolyte was a side job from the core book?

gandalf970 said:

Tell the munchkins that their inquisitor doesn't think highly enough of them to provide them with any free equipment yet. If you really want to annoy them, tell them that the easiest way to prove their worth is to prove that they don't need any free equiptment.

You could try what I am planning. Have an outside group become aware of their activities and decide to offer them a patronage. The sub-plots alone could fuel months of RPing.

gandalf970 said:

Tell the munchkins that they are, for the time being, big f*cking bullseyes meant to draw attention away from the Inquisitor, and are thus expendable. When they ask "well when does that change" tell them around level 8 or so. Either that or tell them that they received their equipment from the Imperium. It's the starting equipment.

As far as "side job", it's hazy and up to the GM. I play it that at low levels, you're still a resource of the Inquisitor, and not part of their retinue. As you level up, you gain more access to the Inquisition, but slowly sever your ties with wherever you came from. At least, your formal ties.

TheFlatline said:

Don't forget that, with the exception of scum, their pay is probably also coming out of the inquisitors funds. Anything else is just asking for the PC to encounter a conflict of interest between his inquisitor and the person(s) paying him. If they question the pay rates between classes, tell them that their pay reflects how easy it is to replace them.

Generally the PCs are more convert operatives. An Inquisitor has any number of blunt instruments. The storm troopers, battle sisters, space marines, guard divisions, and naval vessels. The problem is when a bunch of heavily armed, and armored people show up the bad guys tend to run and hide. Thus Inquisitors use the PCs who can much more easily pass under the radar. If their boss were to start handing out carapace armor, and boltguns he might as well just send in Arbiters, or storm troopers.....

The other answer is that beginning acolytes aren't trusted with major resources until they prove themselves. It's sort of an initiation rite.

gandalf970 said:

Take a look at the DH cor book on page 281. It is mentioned that the Acolytes have the right to petition/request stuff from their feudal master (ie. the Inquisitor)...

Bilateralrope said:

But this conflict of interest gives rise to a lot of RP-potential in my opinion. My groups Arbitrator is still in contact with the Arbites and especially the Divisio Immoralis, the Assassin with the Sons of Dispater, the Psyker with his Schola Psykana and the High Sorteliger of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, the Guardsman with a certain Major from the Imperial Guard and the Departmento Munitorum, and the Tech Priest with the Adeptus Mecanicus of the Lathes in form of a Magos Errant as well as the Ordo Reductor. Conflicts of interest are one of the greatest things in RP if you ask me.

And all of them are indeed still paid by their original organisation. On the one hand because the administration of things in the Imperium of Man normally takes decades (or even longer (especially in case of the Administratum where files can lie for centuries)) and on the other hand because the Inquisition has the power requisition any person from any organisation without objection and it would be bad manners of the respective organisation to stop the payment because of that...

It depends on the group and how you want to play it as GM.

For our group we started at 2000 xp as an already established and (halfway competent) cell. I think we also had around 1000 thrones to spend on stuff. This worked quite well as it let us buy some interesting equipment but still unable to afford the 'heavy' stuff, stopping the 'loot situation' which will inevitably occur if you limit their spending or what they can gain access to.

Apart from the funds we had left over originally it was several planets and stories later (5 months real world) before we had further funds released to us by our Inquisitor during a period of downtime. The funds released were based off of the income chart but worth several months. so it was a sizeable amount. To gain funds we undertook a few money making operations on the side, including blackmailing a planetary governor.

When we had gone up to around 4000 xp we were allowed access to some more exciting weaponry, like a force sword for myself, a breacher for the Techpriest etc...

The missions our group has undertaken so far have been quite varied. We have only flaunted the =I= once, in our last mission, to gain the cooperation of a prison where events were just about to spiral out of control. Two times we have used a cover story and for the remainder of the missions we leave it implied that we are allowed to do what we do, reasoning that the entire Imperium is designed to obey orders and will follow if you lead it in the right way. We are currently heading into a survival horror scenario so were allowed to tool up somewhat more than would be normal for the group (this is when we had the period of downtime) The games themselves are more about RP than the combats, which are infrequent.

We were also given a vessel to travel from world to world in, which contains a locker of lasweapons and a lab (which has now crashed).

In conclusion our Inquisitor is very hands off, (we have met him just once in game) He has given us a vessel and we are expected to make our own way as well as handle most investigating. We can get in touch with him using special codes for astropathic communication and a letter of commendation for when we need the assistance of available Imperial forces.

Ultimately the equipment they have should be dictated by the mission they are on and the play style the group wants. You can invent the reasoning behind it once you know the playstyle your aiming for. You want an investigation game the =I= is hands off and expects you to reemain undetected in the scum of the universe. You want to run an action game, bolters for everyone, the =I= enjoys hundereds sent to their deaths and massive witch hunts.

My group runs as kind of a mercenary force for the Inquisition. When the Inquisitor calls up with a job they get cash lump sum upon completion. Other than that characters have to "work" their regular profession to make money. Normally all work is done out of game time as in, "we worked for 3 months before this call came in". But occasionally work becomes part of the mission. My character actually opened a clothing store as part of an undercover operation and it has been his principle source of income since then.

As a mercenary force we are expected to come with our gear and only recieve mission specific items ie. data slates, retrieval gear etc. At one point some of our people went undercover in the Imperial Guard and replaced all of their home grown equipment with IG stuff. But that was the only time we were given any kind of weaponry.

Here's how I run it, with some examples:

Acolytes are provided the essentials, that is clothing, food, a place to sleep, etc. as a part of their service to the =][=. Additionally they are, on paper, still employed and stationed at their pre-Inquistorial jobs, but on "remote" or "special" assignment, so they may still tap the resources and connections of their positions (Scum excluded, of course). Thus, they still draw down their paychecks, and get bumped up from time to time in position as the =][= sees fit (for me, the link between pargrade increases and career increases is a vague guideline, rather than a hard rule). This money is a 'perk' of working for the Inquisition, and intended to provide the acolyte with the comfort and "psychological space' to help them thrive. Scum are just lucky to be alive and cared for, so have to find their own profit.

Beyond this, the agents will be provided whatever essentials the boss thinks they will need, and can petition for the granting or loan of resources beyond this. What they can get from their Inquisitor is limited by their standing in the Inquisitor's eyes, the mission at hand, and how much they've been asking for previously.

In my game, the Acolytes didn't ask for much for a long time, running with the equipment the boss loaned them and what they could get on their own. After some resounding successes, and initiating a side-investigation of their own (with the Inquisitor's blessing), they requested a bunch of resources to get their project off the ground. Because of their previous conservation of Imperial resources, and their good standing, plus having a good reason for their request, the boss basically just gave them an account code and told them to "just be responsible with it, if I see anything crazy you'd better have a good explaination". The PCs have been rather conservative in their use of these funds, which only further makes future requests more likely to go through.

For missions, they may just get some sensory equipment and the like, or they may get Storm Trooper Armor and their choice of weapons from the armory (all on loan), depending on what they are being asked to do.

I interpreted that as the characters still keeping their day jobs in addition to working for the =I=, so they end up getting compensated by the =I= as well as being on the payroll of your career. If they blow two wages worth of money on junk instead of equipment for the mission they deserve their commeupance. If they are sent on a mission that is above their literal paygrade, then I can understand their Inq arranging let's say a couple of void suits, but they're going to be pretty cheap, hand-me-down space suits, and if it's an overt mission, they can just commandere something(within reason and given their own low ranking on the hierarchy) from the locals for the duration of the mission. (for example, I can understand requisitioning a baneblade from the local IG to fight the giant monster even if it gets heavily damaged in the reasonable course of duty, and they won't be expected to bring it back. Example 2: They commandere some noble's wheels to chase down a villain, and the car gets wrecked in the process. Our heroes are successful but now they are confronted with a bill.). You have to consider their level of rank, power, status, wealth, authority(both within the =I= and their careers), and their connections. Otherwise, they're either too small to waste money on, or their big enough that they don't need to requisition anything.

To me its just one more of the small errors of the game.

Okay when you are rank 1-4 and you are still green, expendable and likely to die from falling into a pit you dont get stuff...

but are we seriously saying that a Rank 6 Mind Scrubbed Assassin working for the Holy Inquisition of Mankind has to go out and assasinate people to make money so that he can buy a good quality mesh cloak, a bolt pistol and a power sword in order to combat the evils of the universe.?

To me that is ludicrous. Okay, I dont think the Inquisition has a stash of Force Weapons or Terminator Armors or Rosarius'es but if I was an Inquisitor, my word was the Emperor's will made manifest and I was sending a trusted cell of Acolytes undercover or openly to root out corruption from within, possible psycher presence or an alien menace about to plunge a planet into mayhem I would requisition on their behalf, hexagramatic wards, psy-botts, carapace armors, power weapons and unlimited ammo without cost.

Anything else is silly. Okay so I am undercover. My cover for arriving on a planet in an Empire of a billion worlds can be that I work for a Rogue Trader, for a major organisation with interests spanning sectors etch. Are you telling me that showing up with carapace as a bounty hunter in a hive world would somehow make the bad guys suspect that I am an Inquisitors flankie? First of all how does said cultist somehow monitor a planets starports AND has access to all the data AND most importantly can somehow decide which individual is a threat or not just based on his armaments. Dont the bad guys also have armors by the way? How the criminal underworld already present didnt run when they showed up!

Overall...

I have a problem in a few of my games as I really cant find a plausible reason that the Inquisitor to whom my Acolytes belong would not trust them (game time has been over 7 years with the same group) and not give them gear of good quality at least.

Also the other issue comes with downtime... one of my players is Master Chirurgeon... have you seen how much they get paid for a single day of treatment? Now imagine how many nobles would want someone as skilled as him (int 56, medicae and chirurgeon) and how much they would pay for his services... the pc basically makes bucketloads of money!

I mean as far as the PC's dont ask for Rosarius, Retractor Field, Witch Lance and Force Weapons I find myself unable to tell the agents of the inquisition of an experienced cell that they cant have something in the main book or the Inquisitors Handbook "cause its expensive".

I don't think anyone would be set off by the carapce armor, that sort of stuff seems as everyday as a wristwatch. However, everyone knows that any body claiming to be a rogue trader or an agent of a rogue trader, is in fact, part of the Inquisition.

When you get right down to it, every GM has different preferences when it comes to this sort of thing. Some GMs prefer their players to be kitted out with all kinds of bling, pulling multimeltas out of bags of holding at rank 1. Others prefer their PCs to scrimp and save for every bullet. DH recognises this by basically leaving it up to the GM. I view the money the PCs get as an extra bit of cash they can get to spend on whatever they want (assuming they can find it).

As for what I think their Inquisitor will give them - it mostly depends on the mission and the value of the acolytes. Most missions don't actually require all that much equipment, after all. Some basic weapons, armour, maybe some com-gear. What's more, odds are your Inquisitor doesn't have a massive stash of rare equipment that he just hands out whenever they ask for it. Sure, they can have a new gun - he can probably find them a lasgun no problem. Imperial Guard issue flak armour - no problem. But he isn't likely to have a rack of power swords and bolt pistols in his spare bedroom.

With my PCs, I lean more to the side of "scrimp and save". I don't like Monty Haul gaming (used to do that in D&D when I was young and dumb). When every guardsman has storm trooper armor, every assassin gets a best quality power sword/sniper rifle, and every tech priest is loaded down with all the bionics they want at rank 1, it would tend to make for dull games. Read a few campaign diaries of games like that... if that's your playstyle, awesome, but I'm not a fan.

As for Inquisitors giving things to the PCs... If they're going on an investigation mission, its very likely the Inquisitor (or rather a high-ranking henchman, as they've never met their Inquisitor) will give them equipment to blend in. If they're going to an ork battleground, to slip through enemy lines and rescue a captured acolyte, they may very well be given better armor and maybe even a weapon upgrade or two. BUT, at the end of the mission, they'll be required to return them. Finally, if they go above and beyond in a mission, they'll get an additional reward - but this is rare and usually hard as hell to accomplish.

I like the scrimp and save method for most adventures though, as it really builds tension and adds to the survival-horror elements of the game. After all, characters armed with lasguns and flak jackets will be a heck of a lot more afraid, and thus cunning, when going up against some baddies, than characters in power armor with bolters, power swords and the like. My players seem to like it so far.

-Thulis

Well, since my PCs are at the moment using one of the =I='s money-laundering companies as a staging point they get various equipment for free, like normal ammo, mono-knives (after a single fight with 3 rottweiler-sized cats they considered melee attachements for their autoguns/shotguns important), silencers and so. More sophisticated tools are only given out if necessary and if the group has no way to buy them.

They get the minimum of the needed 'tools', the rest is up to them. I encourage them to solve the problems in other ways, and reward them for it.

As we are at the moment clearing out a facility of the Beast House there is a chance for them to capture/kill one or two wanted criminals and get the bounty for them. I give them that chance, and if they don't use it they won't have those spare coins for buying the toys they want. If they take it and suceed they'll have a few hundred/thousand Thrones to do a litte leasure shopping.

I think it comes down to this: there are two types of equipment, special and mundane.

Mundane equipment is pretty boring. Flak armour, lasgun or autoguns, normal equipment etc. There really isn't any reason not to give your PCs any of this if they ask for it. They can be loaded down with truckloads of the stuff - doesn't matter.

What matters is the 'special' equipment. Better weapons, better armour, better tools. Powerswords, bolters, melta bombs, bionic limbs, combat drugs, stealth suits etc etc. These are the things your PCs crave. And these are the kinds of items that an Inquisitor isn't going to be handing out. They will be rewards for excellent service, or precious items that your PCs will pry from the cold dead hands of the heretics they kill.

See this is where the system doesnt make sense!

What makes a bolt pistol so special? It costs like 400 thrones... ie 2-3 salaries! My players decided how much they would spend for their life-style (since accomodation is provided by the organisation they work for) and have it as upkeep... the rest goes for gear.

I just dont see WHY the inquisittion would NOT give the best gear availiable to its agents. As far as Impirial Authorities and Agencies goes they should get the best...

I am not saying their Inquisitor has them in his stash but the Inquisition has bastions and central houses in major planets. Am I to believe that guards around the Tricorn wear Stormtrooper carapace and hellguns but somehow the trusted agents dont have access to it?

We imagine the Inquisitorial Acolytes as part of CIA type of Organisation. If the CIA is infiltrating an enemy organisation to eliminate possible threats and the like you think that the best gear would be denied? They would give them a sling and an old battered shotgun and not mp5s with silencers, scopes and the best in camouflage technolodgy?

In my mind in this analogy the Inquisitor is the the guy with the best quality top notch gear if and when he needs it. He would be James Bond in a bond film... licence to kill and command whoever he wants and the best gear experimental or otherwise. The PC's especially after rank 5-6 are his trusted contacts and allies in this mission... if he gets best quality power armor, they get good quality mesh... if he gets a relic force sword they get power swords and so on.

It just doesnt make sense to me that rug-tag cultists and criminals can EVER have better gear than the Impiriums most Secret, Scary, Bad-ass and competent agency!

arcona said:

That's a perfectly legit way of playing it. The beauty of it is that there are tons of different Inquisitors, and each of them have their own operating methods. Whereas one might not hand out gear and make the PCs rely on themselves, others may distribute gear freely to trusted acolytes.

Individual Inquisitors might have differing views on why they wouldn't give even rank 5-6 acolytes powerful gear. Maybe they still don't fully trust the PCs (as acolytes have a tendency to go insane or fall to chaos). Maybe they want the PCs to survive more on their wits as character building (i.e. not to rely on gear, as gear can fail you but faith never fails, blah blah Emperor blah). Lots of reasons.

Meta-gamingly (is that a word?) speaking, I think its just more of a game balance thing. If you're going up against rag-tag cultists with bows and arrows and a couple of lasguns, and you're going in full bore in your brand new Rhino APC wearing power armor and jump packs, with flame throwing MP las-cannons and multimelta jock straps, its gonna be a lot of dice rolling, and a very dull game.

-Thulis

What makes a bolt pistol so special? It costs like 400 thrones... ie 2-3 salaries! My players decided how much they would spend for their life-style (since accomodation is provided by the organisation they work for) and have it as upkeep... the rest goes for gear.

The real issue with the bolt pistol is not the cost, but the rarity. TBH, I think the chances of finding one according to the rules on page 126 are too lenient, but it doesn't really matter - the fact is the PC's Inquisitor is unlikely to have spare ones handy to give out to acolytes. The same goes for just about any Rare or Very Rare items.

I just dont see WHY the inquisittion would NOT give the best gear availiable to its agents. As far as Impirial Authorities and Agencies goes they should get the best...

I am not saying their Inquisitor has them in his stash but the Inquisition has bastions and central houses in major planets. Am I to believe that guards around the Tricorn wear Stormtrooper carapace and hellguns but somehow the trusted agents dont have access to it?

Because the Inquisition do esn't quite work like that. The Inquisition doesn't have bastions or central houses on major planets. It would be more accurate to say that individual Inquisitors, or an alliance of Inquisitors, would maintain such houses. In the Calixis sector such facilities would be maintained by the Calixian Conclave.

This, of course, more or less amounts to the same thing. There will be stashes of weapons, armour and other equipment there. However, once again, most of this will be fairly standard issue, maybe a bit better than usual. To understand why, you need to understand something about the nature of the Imperium.

The vast, vast majority of equipment is 'standard'. Now, that is actually kind of misleading, as there really isn't any such thing as a 'standard lasgun'. There are literally millions of variants of lasguns in the Imperium, but the vast majority of them would have the same stats as the lasgun in the equipment section of the corebook.

The small amount of better quality equipment out there (stuff that's mostly Rare or Very Rare) is produced in small amounts by elite craftsmen. Yes, the Inquisition could try to requisition it - but in doing so, they disrupt the normal functioning of the Imperium. If the Inquisition starts to randomly make demands, orders for weapons don't get filled. Transport ships are redirected. The bureacracy gets confused and worlds fall into anarchy and chaos.

Ok, maybe I'm exagerating... if the Inquisition only does it once. If they start doing it all the time then yes, the Imperium is in trouble. So the Inquisition polices itself, making sure that none of its members abuse their power too much.

This isn't to say that the Calixian Conclave doesn't have access to some very nice stuff. But there is a limit. And they are careful when it comes to choosing who they give it out to.

We imagine the Inquisitorial Acolytes as part of CIA type of Organisation. If the CIA is infiltrating an enemy organisation to eliminate possible threats and the like you think that the best gear would be denied? They would give them a sling and an old battered shotgun and not mp5s with silencers, scopes and the best in camouflage technolodgy?

In my mind in this analogy the Inquisitor is the the guy with the best quality top notch gear if and when he needs it. He would be James Bond in a bond film... licence to kill and command whoever he wants and the best gear experimental or otherwise. The PC's especially after rank 5-6 are his trusted contacts and allies in this mission... if he gets best quality power armor, they get good quality mesh... if he gets a relic force sword they get power swords and so on.

Again, the CIA isn't really a good analogy for what the Inquisition are. In any case, what is important to remember is that different Inquisitors have differing levels of power. As I said, the Calixian Conclave would maintain stashes of good equipment. But all members of the Conclave have acolytes who want some of that equipment. If they just hand it out whenever they want, then it'll soon be gone and the Conclave will be back to filling out Department Munitorum requisition form 384*44-C/=I=332000 for replacements. So, again, they only give out the good stuff to really trusted acolytes.

And, of course, your Inquisitor could be on the outs with the Conclave. If he's a Radical, or just a jerk, they might decide not to grant any requests from his acolytes. Alternatively he might be loaded and have an armoury of his own.

In the end, it's up to the GM to decide how easy it is to get hold of this stuff. If you want to run a CIA-esque game, so be it - your Inquisitor clearly has a lot of pull with the Conclave (or resources of his own). But plenty of Inquisitors can barely scrape together the funds to keep them in bullets.

arcona said:

*Three weeks after Inquisitor requisition, arriving via astropath*

ATTENTION INQUISITOR TITUS

CALIXIS SECTOR CONCLAVE, PLANET TRANCH

YOUR REQUISITION HAS BEEN RECEIVED, AND HAS BEEN FORWARD TO THE ADEPTUS MINISTORIUM TO FULFILL. WITH TOP PRIORITY, YOUR REQUISITION SHOULD ARRIVE IN APROX. *80 years sol standard*

EMPEROR PROTECT YOU INQUISITOR TITUS

Seriously, the empire is so bad at getting supplies where they need to be that entire planets that have been taken over by chaos centuries ago are still waiting to receive their supply shipments.

This is part of why, repeatedly, the GM section tells you to keep your Inquisitor as far away from the acolytes as possible. Otherwise, you get "well hell why won't you give me a bolt pistol and power sword?" scenario.

I just say "it's on it's way" and three stories later, when someone goes "where the hell is our bolter?" I tell them the ship was lost in the warp, or is being sent on a charter vessel, and should catch up to them sometime next century.

arcona said:

Sigh.

Acolytes are unofficial agents of the Inquisition. They do not have any more authority at any given moment than they are charged with by their Inquisitor. And for that, they have to be carting around a writ.

The James Bond thing is old. James Bond is *given* toys (he doesn't choose them) according to the needs for his mission, and he's only allowed access to particular gadgets because he proved on his way up to 00-status that he doesn't need more than a pistol and a reasonable cover. He may leave a trail of bodies behind him, but he'll get the job done. What you're proposing is giving a new recruit 00-status 2 weeks after recruitment. Also, what few times Bond doesn't act alone, his subordinates, when they survive, aren't given the same gadgets or equipment. If they're lucky, they get a pistol. Usually they just get a bullet. In the head.

Look, in the end, run the game how you want to. If a monty haul game is fun for your players, good for you, congrats, rejoyce for thou art true. I'll run my game my way. Thank you.

I am no completely done with this thread, and any future discussion on this topic.

arcona said:

Saying the Inquisition is the Imperium's most competant agancy is kinda like saying Smartboyz are the most intelegent Orks -they are, but in the grander scheme of things, it's really not saying much at all. ;-)