Well us, new players, are really happy that older players can use their old locations to make a competitive GJ deck without buying thrice the expansion. What a relief!

And what a pleasure it should be to use different looking cards so your deck looks like a patchwork… (To me it's like playing with proxies, except it's tournament legal).

As Lars said, we don't really need the GJ locations x3, we can use some neutral ones which are less effective, but hey, we are new players so we don't have to complain. And we can use the GJ/Lanni location, well except if one our friends is playing Lanni, in this case we don't have these locations anymore of course. And if we have them we cannot have a GJ and a Lanni deck at the same time, but we don't want to be capricious, do we?

A lot of people say "well it's playable if you use old cards (not everybody has them, not everybody wants to play with them), proxies (!!???) or neutral cards that you don't use already because they're not really good (no comment)". But it's a finished product we are talking about, why should I have to make arrangements like that?

Come on the GJ expansion is really playable if you buy 3 of it, so if you spend 90€ (140$). For the same price I have 2 Core-sets and 3 chapters, so 4 playable Houses…

The reprinted locations, don't tell me that they need to make money on them. The art and design has already been paid a long time ago, it costs them almost nothing to put them in the box (only the cardboard). Why not putting 3 of them? They know players need 3 of them in their decks. 2 would have been acceptable, how cheap is 1?

Lars said:

Hey, I could not find any of this, could you give me a direct link. Thanks in advance.

And all you Spanish amigos, very very pls spoil the deck. We all cant wait to see the cards. Thanks as well.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=16&efcid=4&efidt=146207&efpag=7

great plots

;-)

Gualdo said:

Oooo, i was looking at http://www.agotny.net/

same.

so that's where them spoilers were hidin'?!

Dobbler said:

Well, this is going to be my last post because I am fed up with all this. You said you found me presumptuous. Ok, thats' your opinion and I respect it. But I find you very friendly about the FFG work. Are you afraid of they are going to be offended by my words? Might be they stop publishing new cards or CP's? No, my friend. It isn't going to be because this game is very PROFITABLE. At least, in Spain. But I can foresee it is not for long with this kind of "business decisions".

And now, I tell you I WAS CHEATED again. Report to FFG if it pleases you. And I'm going to give you one last reason why I was cheated: I didn't know what I was going to find in the box. I just knew I could play Greyjoy with my friends if I bought it. But now, I can't do this because "somebody from FFG" thought I should pay 60€ at least for that honor.

Might be I'm wrong, but curiously, everybody in Spain seems to feel like me. You have the advantage we didn't. You know what you are going to find if you buy KoS. You aren't forced to buy anything, but do you still think we aren't?

But there's something very similar between Spaniards and Martells, we don't forget easily. And now, changing the subject, I have to say first: the expansion came out in a cardboard box smaller than the core set's but bigger enough to bring 240 cards. About the cards themselves, great job. Asha, Balon, Euron, ... if you can read Spanish, you'll find this useful: www.edgeent.com/v2/edge_foros_discusion.asp

at a first look (i'm not spanish but something is similar between italian-spanish) great neutral and King characters and most of all great plots... I'll read quitely greyjoy cards later.

thx for spoiler, hope to see also the images but I know it is not so quick scan all of them.

fabest said:

Well if you have 2 people playing from one set of cards then the KotS expansion isn't that expensive because you now have two people contributing to the cost so picking up two would cost you two players the same as picking up one for an individual player, or is this unreasonable and capricious also?

I get that the KoS is on the expensive side of the LCG model. I'm not saying it isn't. I'm saying their are workarounds and ways to minimize your costs and maximize your value, especially if your building decks based on a 1x core set model to start with. I'm not saying don't complain, I'm saying complain, but look for those workarounds and see what you can do to maximize your value. Dobbler is saying the same thing too and so did the rolling stones (you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might just find, you get what you need).

naizen said:

At the end of the day isn't this what matters?

Looks like US retailers have it on the shelf as of yesterday.

Lars said:

Sorry Lars if I offended you but I was a bit pissed off. You always add great contributions to these forums.

You cannot split the cost between 2 players because only 1 will be able to play GJ with 2 expansions. Who will pay 30 $ for cards he won't use (or maybe 1 or 2 Kings and neutrals)?

The cards are great because they are powerful but they are mostly reprints and the art is far from great overall (some are greats but some really poor).

The fact that there will be only 1 cancel Event in the "Tower of Hand" chapter conforts me in my decision to stop buying cards for the game. FFG forces you to buy 3 (or more if you play several decks) packs in order to be competitive. They know which card will interest players the most and they put only 1 in each chapter.

Well I thought that LCG was about buying a pack each time a new one is out and you're ok. Obviously it's not and I think that in the end it costs at least as much as a CCG, but you don't have the pleasure of cracking your booster pack to see what's inside (surprise, surprise, see I can quote the Stones too ) and the pleasure of trading cards is missing too.

I'm not saying CCG is better than LCG and I agree that with CCG you end up with a lot of cards that you will never play. An "honestly" made LCG would have been really great, especially that the AGOT mechanics, community & rules are amongst the best (with L5R I think).

I think I'm gonna buy a 3rd Core-Set, maybe some more existing chapters and stop here. I'm gonna build decks with the 4 Houses depending on my mood, it will be enough to have fun with my friends, and to stay friends with my bank account

I still prefer the LCG system. I´m a collector, but I don't like the stress of having to look for the cards i'm missing and the ebay hunt. This way I get them all for very little. And if you wan to play and you get 3 copies of each you get a full playset and can make every deck possible within the lcg format.

That's a luxury I can´t afford in any of the other ccg.

I think that the question it's quite simple:

Core Set: 208 cards + 6 title cards + coin and power tokens + title figures + board + rulebook = 40€ (about 50$): You can play quite well with all four houses.

A chapter pack: 40 cards (20, really, since other 20 are copies of the half of the other 20) = 10€. You've many resources to reinforce your decks.

Greyjoy expansion: 60 cards + one resin house card = 30€ (It's hard to play with this house because of the gold, and need to purchase at least another copy)

If we compare all of them, it's obvious that the Greyjoy expansion it's quite overpriced. The excuse is the resin card. We don't need to have 3 copies of the resin card. But we must, if we want to play Greyjoy. Most of us have one or two copies of KotS, but we're thinking about not purchase the Martell expansion if we'll get more of the same.

Maybe the martell expansion could include what's missing in the greyjoy one.

fabest said:

well i'm not sure how you guys are playing, but it sounds a bit like you both want to play GJ against each other, but only have one core set to split? Do you run into a problem of both not being able to play lannister or house x?

I think if you really really wanted to you could make 2 expansions between 2 people work fine (at worst you both can;t play GJ at the same moment in time).

fabest said:

I'm sorry to see you go over one item (if FFG made a habit of overcharging i could understand more). I think the 'promise' (really wish i still had a copy of their intro to LCG letter, does anyone out there still have it?) of LCG was easier entry and cheaper to purchase. This expansion still meets that model. If you want to start with house Greyjoy its quite easy, just buy this (location level in deck building aside) expansion and boom your in with house greyjoy. It is still much cheaper then a CCG (as other posters ahve asstested to).

I think, and correct me if i'm wrong, that you are feeling disastified with the 'no more suitcase' feeling that comes along with the LCG. You are correct in that if you want to be competative you will need 3x of the chapter pack with The Hand's Judgment in it, but you won't need 3x of all of the chapter packs (i.e. if your not building house targ competativly you don't need 3x of Ancient Enemies, which is still a great Chapter pack at 1x) and if you can swing some of the key reprints from other players/sources you won't need 3x of this expansion (yeah it is tougher, but thats an economic decision, not a gameplay decision). I think LCG doesn't remove the 'suitcase effect' it just minimizes it to a toiletries bag syndrome

Nine989 said:

Well it's a luxury I can't afford in AGOT neither. Buying everything thrice cost a lot. I only want to have 2 playable decks, not every card in the world.

Lars said:

Is this what you're looking for?: www.agameofthrones.com/news-lcg-guide.html

Thanks, but not excatly. thats a summary of, and led me to, this.

they do mention rare hunting (paying $20-$30 for one card [on top of $100-$300 for boxes of cards], which happened quite a bit in 5KE w/ Myrcella and the kingdom locations) in the summary, but the letter 9at least how i read it) stresses accesibily of the cards and entry into the game by new players.

"without the blind buy purchase model "

LOL

One of FFG's sins is that we don't have any official list what's inside pack/set. If it weren't for fans...

well the first guy to buy it is blind, but its not blind in that you have absolutley no idea what 11 cards are in the pack (out of 350). Once the chapter pack is released it is no longer blind.

but yeah i do agree that FFG should announce the cards when they announce the chapter pack is in stores.

Well Lars it's okay, everybody has an opinion, no need to argue anymore Besides my english doesn't allow me to tell accurately my thoughts

FFG want you to buy 3 chapters pack to stay competitive, I understand that. It's too expensive for me and it's too frustrating to build decks without all cards available. LCG is great if you want to build several decks, for different houses. If you want to focus on one or two decks it costs too much.

Lars said:

I totally agree. It is also a long way to get the CPs here. So the sooner I know what is in the better.

Does anyone know anything about the Martell expansion? Any propable date of release? Anything?

Rozy said:

Nothing has been announced, other than the fact that it exists. There was some mention of calling it "Kings of the Sun," which bugged people to no end (it's "princes" in Dorne, not "kings"), but no real information on timing. I'd guess somewhere in the Nov. to Dec. timeframe, but that's pure conjecture on my part (being a month or two after the KL CPs are done).

I have read through most of the posts on here and it really irritates me to hear all the useless complaining about the price on the Greyjoy expansion. So it costs $30 bucks. Loddy Freaking Da!! You get the Greyjoy cards needed to bring them back into the circuit. You also get a nifty little resin piece too. Yeah the core set was only $10 more but if I'm not mistakin FF said they lost money on it. I know times are tough for everybody but is it necessary to wine and pee your pants over a $30 set. Like alot of the other guys on here have already said the locations aren't hard to pick up and if you and some buddies chip on a set together you will have all the cards. Its not like you have to go out and drop $90 as soon as the set hits the shelves. It's a whole lot better than dropping $50 and $60 on rares from other games and even dropping $30 for rare kingdom locations! Would you like to see those times come back??? I know I don't.

I think the main complaint is that you only get one of every card for $30. Not everyone knows someone with old black bordered locations they can have (nor are they legal for tournament play, I believe). You could do some trading among friends if you only play one house (although that'd still necessitate 2-3 purchases among a group of friends), but if you're wanting the useful cards for all houses and/or you like to collect every card, chances are you're looking at $90 for a total of 180 cards. Compare that to getting 208 cards (not counting house cards and other fluff) for a $40 purchase of ONE core set, and perhaps you can see the inequity in price and why it's a valid point of concern . . . even if some people could voice their opinions a little more constructively with less acting like victims.