foxpillow said:

Right, but not with such price.

eloooooooi said:

You can NOT compare price per cost to the Core set. The core set is like a console for a gaming system. FFG made little to no money on the Core Set. It was priced low enough to get people into the game.

However, I think it is fair to make comparisons to a Chapter pack. Do keep in mind that it would take 3 different chapter packs to get an equal number of different cards equal to what you get in the expansion set (20 different cards in each chapter pack). Yes, you get less total cards in the Expansion set, but the same amount of different cards. Plus you get a new bathroom soap holder.

So since everyone dislikes it, what is a fair proposal for the Martell expansion?

80 different cards for $25? You get the same total number cards as two chapter packs, but twice as many different cards. This is my suggestion, and do away with the resin house card.

The solution is simple, just proxy the missing locations with some of the extra ones from the core set. My budy and I split a 3rd core set and it wasn't that expenzive leaving us with some extra fiefdoms and gold producing locations. Proxy until you want to play in a real tournament. We play mostly casually around here. So no problem. There are already chapter packs that you want three of, I see no difference here. We are already pooling cards and resources here with each of us building one main house. So the split is pretty equitable. Some of the unaligned stuff gets a little scarce but it is after all just a game.

So far we are having a great time and finding that this is a much less expensive alternative to the CCGs. Seriously everyone raise your hand if you have had to shell out big bucks for one copy of a power rare, lets say $30.

Or who has bought a booster pack that was utter crap. Spent your money and went away unfulfilled or worse downright PO'd.

Raises hand for both questions.

jugglingfool said:

Raises hand (though not $30 but $20-ish and multiple boosters, even some disappointing boxes)

What i find interesting is that this deck is playable out of the box if you play aginst Core Set decks (which is what it expands on). People seemed to expected an uber 60 tight deck that would focus all of GJs might and power into one deck. The deck does a good job of bringing in most of GJs themes (i counted 6 or 7 when i peeked at the box) but like all the core set decks they are dispersed at 1-3 cards each. Also, interesting is that no one is complaining about the 60 card count included the 6 titiles, at least not yet. Thats really the only thing i don;t like about the box is that its billing 60 cards, when its really 53 (the titles are great but in a meta of 6 you only need one set)

The location issue is moot to me as there are enough locations to run the deck (though the +1 initiative location hurts the deck) out of the box against the core set decks (and if your not using lanni against GJ you have a few more locations to use w/ the core set). Now if you want to spend the money to have a tight effecient deck, then i can see some complaints, but we knew all a long that a large portion of the price was the house card and that it was going to hurt when you bought your second and third boxes (read house card). I like the house card and will use one of them. I will give one away to someone in my meta and the third will either be used as dobbler said or maybe put up on e-bay under a more general song of fire and ice memorabilia header.

Yes you can use the old cards reprinted (and I have some) but I don't want to do that. I want all my cards to be LCG ones, with the same art…

You say it's playable out of the box, yes it's playable but honestly do you wanna play a House without the 3 standard House locations? Don't you wanna be competitive a little bit? Won't you feel your deckbuilding is not 100% satisfying without them?

With the Core set you can buy 2 of it and have all the standard House locations. I expected that with the GJ expansion, that by buying 2 I would have all the locations. You absolutly need to buy the expansion x3 if you wanna play GJ seriously, without old cards or proxies. It's not CCG, you cannot trade for them!

Dude - if you have the old locations, you don't have much of an argument.

If you don't - PM someone your address. Any long time player will be happy to send you 2 Gatehouse and 2 Fiefdoms.

Lars said:

So you guys have it already?

Can someone put images?

In america there is only one person that i know of who has it and he was kind enough to share with us in NYC (there are some spoilers in the NYC tourney thread)

Hmm, that is news to me. I thought the major complaint was that the old locations couldn't be used in tournaments. Now I'm not sure what all the fuss is about concerning the locations. (I understand the concerns about the price.)

So now you're saying I have to buy a third Core Set for 1 card that I want, a third copy of Forever Burning? Ouch. Anybody have a CS Forever Burning they don't need?

ktom said:

That's right. You'll have a copy of each one and in addition, a copy of a sixth resource that produces a gold dragon that can be translated as "kingdom of shadows", a neutral kingdom location. I agree the deck is playable if you play a 40-card deck but not for a 60-card one, not with just 6 locations for gold, and of course I absolutely say no, if somebody ask if it's playable out of box. I can say this because I HAVE ALREADY TESTED.

But, perhaps I didn't explain very well why I am so angry with FFG. I'm angry because they have lied to me. When I bought the core set, nobody told me that Greyjoy and Martell were going to be excluded from the game because till then, they had been a very important part of the game. So I thought a game with 6 different houses could be played some day and the lcg environment was perfect to build six well-balanced decks with a controlled cost. Since FFG announced the Greyjoy and Martell sets, I have bought every single chapter and I have built 4 well-balanced decks waiting for the kraken and the sun arrival. I planned to spend 250€ more or less to have 6 decks at the end of the year and after that I would buy some chapters from time to time.

But with the Greyjoy Set I have realized casual players like me are not welcome in the FFG world. They don't want people who buy just one copy of their products, even when LCG format is perfectly suitable for us. Just 3 cards can seem to be very little but it is all a declaration of principles: FFG doesn't want us in the business.

naizen said:

I think it is a bit extreme to say FFG doesn't want your business. Of course they do. As well, its not accurate to say they lied to you unless FFG has somehow promised you something personally and gave you something else.

Keep in mind that AGoT is the first LCG, and FFG is learning the process of how to issue it best. Obviously the Greyjoy expansion has some flaws in pricing and card composition. You, like others are upset. So the question becomes, do they fix these issues in the next Martell Expansion? There's nothing they can do now to "fix" the Greyjoy expansion.

Dobbler said:

Do you really believed it?

So, how much learning it needs to make events in CP (suitable for every house) x3 instead of unique locations?

Of course, they didn't promise me anything but yes, I feel they cheated me a bit because Greyjoy house card appeared in the core set, didn't it? And they sell lots of cards for Greyjoy in the chapters and it was supposed that I could play them with this expansion. So at the end, they lied to me because I can't play the Kraken with just one expansion and even more when I think it is clearly thought to force people to buy several products they don't really need (3 resin items, are you kidding me?) Of course, I can do nothing except buying the locations from 5K, but it's not fair. And I started this thread to make a complaint.

Dobbler said:

Learning is not possible if you earn money with it. I mean this is a business and if you want to learn a process, give your product free but not try to learn when somebody pays for it. For the Martell expansion, I don't mind because I'll take it anyway, but I can tell you I'm not going forward the next cycle of chapters. That's plain.

As someone maybe knows i'm a new player from italy an I began playing thrones with 2 friends of mine las march.

I love the game and I bought 1x all CPs. We are 3 friends that plays and we play 3 different houses so when we have to go to a tournament we borrow each other event, dupe ecc...

Regarding this expansion I'm very exited cause in the books I loved greyjoy and never played them.

Like someone other said I prefer 60 (54) unique card instead of 3x 1 gold locations but this is only my point of view. I'm never going to buy 3x some products... for local games we proxy cards... for turnament we ask our meta to make an exchange...

In the NYC thread I saw some cards that are thrilling me... and for me it is the only thing that matter...

I love how FFG is supporting the game. Unluckly in italy it isn't promoted and we have to buy products from USA but it is ok... Martin's World is farbolus... and it is not a resin card or 10 euros that now is making me dislike it...

...Surely I hope that with MArtell expansion things will be better for all of us... for now, i'm loving the kraken come back and i'm loving the KLE cycle... so i don't complain with FFG works...

waiting for spoilers :-)

Rogue30 said:

FFG still needs to make money. Of course they would prefer you buy three copies of everything instead of one. It isn't their job to make sure you only have to buy one.

And yes, I know for a fact that FFG is evaluating the Expansion set model. I don't know if they will change the format from the precedence that the King of the Sea is setting, but I'd like to think they will take the feedback to heart to make a change.

naizen said:

I'm sorry, but FFG is a business. If they start giving Expansion sets away free, they lose money and go out of business. The game dies. The real world doesn't work like that.

The other day I went to the supermarket to get hamburger meat to make a burger for myself. They had 1lb packages, and 5lb packages. But I only needed 1/2 a pound. So did I choose not to buy it because I got more than I wanted (and thus had to pay more)? Nope. I bought it anyways. There are all sorts of examples in our everyday life where stuff we want isn't packaged, priced, or issued the way we would prefer. Sometimes companies respond to feedback from their customers and make changes. Sometimes they don't. We will see if FFG makes changes.

As for the locations you need, I already stated that there are older players like myself who can send older copies of some of the income locations. Just let us know. I already give out copies of cards from the Core Set that were previously issued to players in my area.

Dobbler said:

But if I do buy 3 packs I will have only 3 events and 9 locations. That's stupid. You don't need 9 Stark locations even if you play all houses.

If events would be 3x, then you could put them all in 3 different decks - nothing's wasted.

Besides - more happy customers the more money for FFG, isn't it obvious?

What they prefer? Small number of old players buying 3x or great number of players buying 3x / 1x?

We could be happy and at the same time FFG can make money. Am I naive?

Rogue30 said:

Nope, your not naive. There is a line there. But I do know sales are increasing.

eloooooooi said:

Let´s do some more maths.

price of a display 75 €, cards in a display 36*11 = 396, average cost of one card = 0,19 € per card (rounding up).

Dobbler said:

I'm sorry, what do you have on mind? (english is not my native language)

There is definately a line there.

As a casual player hoping to build balanced houses as each cycle comes out, I'm putting in an order for 4 of the event canceller CP rather than the usal 2 or 3. More sales for FFG in this case. Less happiness in mine. I'm sure the FFG marketing department knows how to draw out that line, however, don't you fear.

Rogue30 said:

What I'm saying is that from an economic standpoint, there is a point where FFGs decisions either creates more income, or causes players to leave and sales drop and they lose money. So, if having a singular copy of a great event in a chapter pack causes people to buy more chapter packs, but causes nobody to leave the game (although a few customers might be grumpy), shouldn't they do this from a business standpoint?

Well, if FFG marketing guys read this: I won't buy Kings of the sea x2 like I planned. Only x1.

As for the chapter packs I will do proxy as rebellion against their money politics.

longclaw said:

You're missing a couple of steps in here. What was happening was that, before the expansion came out, people were saying "I want to build a GJ and a Martell deck for LCG. There are no resources in-House for them. So I'm going to pull out my Gate House, Bloody Keep, Iron Islands Fiefdoms, Aeron's Chambers, Water Gardens, Lord Doran's Chambers, and Dornish Fiefdoms to match the in-House resources that the other Houses got in the Core Set. Then, I'll make an LCG-legal deck from that." Unfortunately, this was not legal for playing Martell and GJ in official tournaments because those resource cards are not in the LCG card pool. Now that the expansion has come out, Gate House, Bloody Keep, Iron Island Fiefdoms and Aeron's Chambers are all in the LCG card pool, presumably as direct reprints. So yes, now you can use them - and their black bordered counterpoints. You cannot use the corresponding Martell resources in the LCG format because they haven't been released yet.

So the complaint that the old locations could not be used was based on the fact that they were not in the card pool, not on the fact that "black border cards" of direct reprints cannot be used. You seem to have extended the "not in card pool, so old locations not legal" into simply "old cards not legal."

longclaw said:

So now you're saying I have to buy a third Core Set for 1 card that I want, a third copy of Forever Burning? Ouch. Anybody have a CS Forever Burning they don't need?

Correct. The text on the CS Forever Burning is (slightly) different from the WED version. Therefore, it is not the same card. If you put the "black border" version from WED into an LCG deck, you are (at best) using a proxy. Proxies are not legal in official tournaments. That's always been the case. (Obviously, proxies are as legal as you want them to be on a local level.)

~ BTW: I'm not sure how it is news to you that old versions of direct reprints are legal in an LCG event, but that you need a third copy of the CS-Forever Burning.

Rogue30 said:

I will be buying three of each because I always buy three of each (in order to always have a full playset of everything). But I have gone on record already with FFG stating that the expansion set was overpriced for what you get.