I have been planning purchases for a while now, and I find myself interested in an Alliance/squadron heavy list, which brought me around to contemplating the B-wing. It's an odd ship:

+ Not heavy

+ Dogfights as well as a TIE.

+ Hits ships harder then any other squadron right now.

- Not as tough as Y-wings

- Slow. Oh, so slow.

It's the last point that I find myself getting stuck on. If you fly your fleet in formation, you're holding every other ship and squadron to less then their maximum speed. If you use the B-wings as clean-up, you're fighting with less then your full available firepower.

I know it's still early to consider such things, but does anyone have ideas about how to best use B-wings (other then in a Hyperspace Assault)?

Take 100 pts of them, use them as a screen and move to spots a victory will move over. Also if you do this, take at least one, preferably 2 assault frigates upgraded. Essentially you'll be trying to out muscle the imperials, using the b wings as huge zone deterrent to maintain your better range ability

It is important to note that you can deploy your squadron up to distance 5 from the edge (ships deploy at distance 3) so they do get a little head start

it's weird after playing X-wing miniatures so long that the X-wing actually engages squadrons better than the B-wing (more speed, same hull, one more die of damage)

the slowness of B-wings is going to ******* suck, and I think Truegeek has the right of it. At that speed, you're not getting **** so you have to get them to come to you (similar to X-wing, really, where Bs tend to hang around in the middle of the table). Presumably, they could be an anti-capital ship screen in the way that Tie Fighters are an anti-squadron screen. If some poor gladiator tries to get in close, he's going to get tangled in B-wings like a fish in a net.

They may pair very well with X-wings (escort) or A-wings (counter), and I highly doubt they'll be run with the somewhat redundant Y-wings. The Y-wings are hardier and faster, but don't hit as hard (especially not against Squadrons), but they should also pair incredibly well with X-wings (especially Dutch, who has utility against squadrons far beyond his improved blue dice count)

I'm not super enthused, but their slow nature could play well into the Rebellion's long range game by cock-blocking faster imperial vessels. They're going to have a hell of a time against squadrons, though.

My thoughts, and a strategy I'd like to flesh out for bombers in general is this: Bombers and A-Wings

300 Point Game

• 4 B-Wings, 4 A-Wings
• 5 Y-Wings, 4 A-Wings

A-Wings go to engage TIEs and use their counter attack and hold up TIEs and get as many 3 and 2 die rolls - if possible for bombers to move through.

The B-Wing problem is its slow, but it has range. It would almost have to be used with a squadron command to move and shoot. I don't think its wise to just have only B-Wings or because they can't be spammed at 14 points. Y-Wings are cheap and a good option though. This might be something where the B-Wings, and A-Wings real escort will be the Gallant Haven and its one damage heal of squadrons within 1 range. And the personal upgrade that allows you to reactivate a squadron you already activated (double attack or double move basically). If you are going to go max or a lot in on B-Wings, might as well make it the Full Monty and bring an Assault Frigate with them, as that can travel faster. Maybe even a frigate or a corvette - or anything with squadron commands and squadron dials. The Assault Frigate, and the Frigates are bringing 2 and 3 red die from the front arcs. The Gallant Haven with a weapons upgrade might help put a beating on a Victory, or at least take down some shields, or even toss a few accuracy rolls in the same turn as the B-Wing attacks. I think with 5 bombers, Might need Ilbis commander and give your two support ships squadron tokens to start out with.

But if the B-Wings are in a middle of a fight, they aren't going anywhere, they might as well slug it out with their 3 blue die.

Honestly I don't see much of a use for B-Wings. It will take 3-4 turns to just into range of a slow moving enemy. X-Wings and Y-Wings make much better anti-ship squadrons to my mind. X-Wings being multirole while Y's are more dedicated anti-ship.

A fleet with perhaps a pair of A's and a few X's escorting mostly Y's seems best to me. The A-Wings use a squadron command to alpha strike and do as much damage with their Counter ability as possible. The X's mop up whats left then focus on ships while the Ys just go straight into it.

B-Wings speed of 2 is just too slow to be useful no matter how many anti-ship dice they have. It is also possible that FF realizes this and will bump them up to speed 3 with a points increase (2 pts more maybe).

I'm waiting for a few more upgrade cars (an officer that allows you to double move instead of attack and move, for example). Alone, they are difficult, but not impossible to use. If you place them dead in front of a ship moving at speed zero, each time the opposing ship moves, you get, essentially, a free move.

They'll find their place.

So squadron speed 2 corresponds to maneuver tool speed 2.

So I see the Bwing as a 14 point upgrade to your ship. You will keep them close. If the imps try to close you have a threat.

But speed 2 is incredibly limiting. Perhaps escorting a high shield ship is the role for a bwing.

Put them somewhere your opponent is inclined to be. Objectives, prime approaches for your own ships, etc.

I think thier speed will limit thier ability to redeploy to other areas of the board so where you commit them to is where they will be fighting at.

Two words.

Gallanthaven, Yavaris.

So squadron speed 2 corresponds to maneuver tool speed 2.

So I see the Bwing as a 14 point upgrade to your ship. You will keep them close. If the imps try to close you have a threat.

But speed 2 is incredibly limiting. Perhaps escorting a high shield ship is the role for a bwing.

I only made an approximation of the speeds to compare between the B-Wing and the Assault Frigate.

I guess someone made a good point above ... rather than fly them AT the Star Destroyer or into Tie's fly them to objectives or in the path (Lets face it ... its pretty easy to see where VSD's are going to go) and when they finally get there ... squadron order + Yavaris = making back their 14 points?

How about this guy?

It would appear that you can use a squadron twice in a single turn. Activate the B-Wings with the Squadron command (resolve attacks/movement) then get the additional movement during the Squadron Phase. Were I making use of this fellow I'd have him in a ship with a Squadron value of at least two, and having them (the B's) fly with either X or A squadrons to screw with enemy fighters in turn. X's have the advantage of Escort and being support bombers, and A's for their obvious speed and Counter. It's not a perfect use of points, but you can at least give a really sizable boost of speed to a squadron that really needs it. I'm not 100% sure if Adar will let you use his ability with a token as opposed to a dial, but it's worth investigation!

Additionally, you can play with Yavaris a little: since I'd prefer the title on an Escort Frigate instead of a simple Support Refit you can use the title ability on a faster ship that already happens to be in range, or take absolute advantage of moving fighters around the board and attacking, at least around said Nebulon-B. In any case, getting out a second attack from either squadron while taking advantage of the B-Wings' rather nasty bomb attacks paired with either cutting down opposing fighters or getting even more bomb attacks in seems like a legit use of throwing dice around. Pair this combo with the potentially monstrous attacks of Keyan Farlander and you have an effective use of B-Wings.

I'm thinking something more along the lines of one or two B-Wings with a dodonna's pride CR90 carrying them along. Get into a prime flanking spot, and force your opponent to either pour fire into your B-wings or Dodonna's pride. Have a Gallant haven with an actual deadly swarm to make overcommitting a reaction to this flanking force even more ruinous.

B-wings are mostly going to be a one of or two of, I suspect. They won't be a prime fighting force you spam, like the Y-wing. B-wings will demand a very powerful alpha strike, with support from multiple sources, and used as a small weight to counterbalance a flanking force.

I'm thinking something more along the lines of one or two B-Wings with a dodonna's pride CR90 carrying them along. Get into a prime flanking spot, and force your opponent to either pour fire into your B-wings or Dodonna's pride. Have a Gallant haven with an actual deadly swarm to make overcommitting a reaction to this flanking force even more ruinous.

B-wings are mostly going to be a one of or two of, I suspect. They won't be a prime fighting force you spam, like the Y-wing. B-wings will demand a very powerful alpha strike, with support from multiple sources, and used as a small weight to counterbalance a flanking force.

My CR90s tend to start the game at speed 3-4 and never ramp down. I see a B-Wing sidekick having trouble keeping up. Or getting pounced on by a couple of spare TIEs. However, I can see the benefits of using a flanky Corvette as a "spawn point" for B-Wings. For example, if you put the bulk of your fleet on the right side of the board and get your opponent pointed in that direction, you could place a Corvette and B-Wings on the left side, with the hope that everything will eventually meet in the middle.

I'm aesthetically attracted to the idea of spamming them in front of a slow capital, and buzzing around it like a swarm of hornets, but that 2 speed is such a killer. Even a slow-ass Vic is liable to outdistance them before they can do anything to it.

I'm sure at some point I'll try slow-rolling them with an Assault Frog. It doesn't need to arc-dodge as badly as the other Reb ships, so it can afford to keep its speed low enough for the B-Wings to tag along. Bring some A-Wings to help keep the B's from getting engaged.

One final note, though -- after finally digesting all the rules for this system, the biggest rules gap seems to be the absence of any mechanic for representing squadrons launching from capital ships mid-battle.

If something like that comes into play down the line, B-Wings could find their place; a capital could get them up the board and then dump them in somebody's face.

So squadron speed 2 corresponds to maneuver tool speed 2.

Not really. Ships move 68mm per speed. So at speed 2 they move 136mm. Distance 2 is about 124mm. So your Ship needs to be SLOWER then the squadron. Now granted the Squadron moves after the Ships. (I measured the Range and Distance rulers and the maneuvering tool, and creating a nice little spread sheet to figure this out)

small ships would be able to "push" the squadron a little bit for one round, but in the next round all ships would cleanly overtake a speed 2 squadron at speed 2. The Medium and big ships would push the Squadron BACK if your opponent was mean and placed them behind the ship

best to have the "Squadron ship" at speed 1, so it can use it's squadron command for the B-wings to do their strike

I was thinking more the CR-90 would constantly 'bump' into the B-wings as it flies- and you would continually place the B-wings directly in front of the CR-90. this would allow the corvette to 'carry' them, and for the slower craft to match its speed. Mind you, the B-wing won't be able to do much while the corvette's carrying them along, but it would allow the much faster corvette the ability to help the B-wings move.

Of course, this might just be me misreading the overlapping rules.

Your opponent places any squadrons overlapped by your ships, regardless of friendly or enemy squadrons.

Your opponent places any squadrons overlapped by your ships, regardless of friendly or enemy squadrons.

While your opponent does get to do that, the Corvettes so small that no matter where your opponent places them on the model during the squadron phase you can get back in front of the corvette.

Your opponent places any squadrons overlapped by your ships, regardless of friendly or enemy squadrons.

While your opponent does get to do that, the Corvettes so small that no matter where your opponent places them on the model during the squadron phase you can get back in front of the corvette.

Are you sure it works with 2 movement? I don't have my stuff nearby. but going off of memory the length of the base of the Corvette would be too long for a max move to take a B-Wing from the back edge (where the opponent would place it) to the front edge (making sure the B-Wings full has clearance to land)

Even if it did, the Corvette would have to do another 1 speed straight to keep the B-Wing bumping. Seems like a "2 steps forward, 1 step back" kind of deal.

The omg their gonna suck crowd should just put them on the table as proxy and give them a try. So after some trials beyond theorycraft...

Playtest observations:

Speed two is not as bad as it can first seem. If anything it keeps you from expending this anti-capital ship asset early in a futile attempt to break the enemy fighter screen. However what it does do is show how critical being in the right place to start with will matter. That in mind, deploying these guys last is a good idea. Picking the most likely path to catch a Victory Star Destroyer is what you picked these guys for. Also, remember fighters can be placed at distance 1-2 from a ship, even outside the deployment area. So use that to your advantage and get a free turn of distance out of it.

A ship using fighter commands can move these boys up the table rather quickly, and help maximize their potential by putting them into the fight when needed most. By starting them ahead of your fighter carrier, being in command for the critical opening turns is not an issue unless you are speeding at 3 with your carrier. Without the command, you will simply be moving to try and gain position. If you find you will not be able to maintain a command system or you are unwilling to, your next best idea is to move into the path of an enemy vessel in hopes it overlaps or lands within range 1 before the squadron step.

If caught in a dogfight, they can handle themselves, but at the expense of losing vital turns to do their job, or being left in the dust by enemy ships for the remainder of the game. So not a total loss, but you pay a price for these so why not plan to make sure they do the job you paid for. In order to do that you are going to have to clear the skies or tie up those Ties. B-wings will benefit from fighter support, and proxy A-wings aside, X-wings will do the job. Engage fighters to lock them down so the B-wing can take the shortest path to its victim.

What if the enemy ship does not want to come close? Then you are already winning. If you put them where the enemy ships intend to go, and the enemy wont cooperate, isn't that already a victory? After a few burning Victory class, your opponent loses his desire to come near these guys. 4 flights of them can **** near kill a Victory with a single lucky pass. Area denial is a powerful tool in a 6 turn game.

Anyway, 5 games in with proxy B-wings and 2 Victory Star Destroyer wrecks later, these guys are worth it. You really have to make sure they are a part of your plan, and not just sort of in your fleet for kicks. You get just over 2 feet worth of distance out of these guys over the course of an entire game, so put your best foot forward

Did I mention objective play is where these guys will shine?

In every single case, it's not worth deliberately moving ships up to overlap your own squadrons for the purpose of movement, because your opponent always will move them back.

Remember, a fighter only moves once during a round anyway. So once it moves, either to get into place, or after being displaced, it's moved. Thus being pushed back the size of a base, even a small base, is still being pushed back, period.

You want the enemy to run over your fighters with their ships though. At least it has worked out well for me in that regard.

In every single case, it's not worth deliberately moving ships up to overlap your own squadrons for the purpose of movement, because your opponent always will move them back.

Remember, a fighter only moves once during a round anyway. So once it moves, either to get into place, or after being displaced, it's moved. Thus being pushed back the size of a base, even a small base, is still being pushed back, period.

Erhm no. You don't move them, you PLACE them. They can move/attack afterwards.

Good distinction DreadStar. Although I think he meant that they will almost always elect to move them backward, therefore reducing their momentum forward when it comes time for them to activate. More important I find is using it as a way to get out of being engaged when I can.