Currently the Armada system does not operate under the "if you can shoot me than I can shoot you" doctrine.

Should it? The Rebel Corvette will move after the dice are rolled and the attack is made, so unless it is speed 0 it will be somewhere else.

I am also inclined to suggest that with the shoot and move mechanic of the game why shouldn't the ability to read/plan well be rewarded?

I think the process is somewhat abstract, the miniatures themselves are not to scale or the corvette would be able to fit into the Star Destroyers Loading Bay. So the shooting rules may seem strange at times.

Wrong star destroyer (VSD vs ISD), but yes, it's a sliding scale. In the end the models don't matter, we're really only gaming with 3 base sizes. I wish they would explain there reasoning for the "yellow dot system." Might make more sense to us in the end.

Feels like it accounts for the relative strengths or weaknesses of each ship and to some extent the shape of the ship. The Nebulon is a pretty good example, it has very narrow fore and aft arcs and wide port and starboard arcs. Which seems about right given its shape.

I think it may be a game mechanic that doesn't work in a realistic manner but gives the game a realistic outcome. Perhaps you could say it works despite itself?

A related rules question: we found out that LOS can be outisde the firing arc. But what about measuring the shortest distance. Can this also be outside the firing arc?

no, you measure from closest part of the hull zone shooting from to the hull zone you are shooting at.

Kinda weird they used the laser to draw the line between the dots since those are clearly good for the shot. I would have preferred to see the laser drawing the line down the line between the Forward and starboard sections of the corvette because that is what appears to be a judgement call.

from page 8 of Learn to Play:

"Attack

from page 8 of Learn to play

"Attack

During this step, the ship can perform up to two

attacks. An attack originates from one hull zone, and

the target must be inside that hull zone’s firing arc

(see “Firing Arcs and Hull Zones” on page 9)."

As for the picture with the laser pointer (line), that would be out outside the hull zone's firing arc.

PS. If anyone has issues with attack rules, please check this thread. Great diagrams. https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/151598-rules-answers-arc-line-of-sight-diagrams/

I say it's legal, the rear of the VSD is defo inside the firing arc(s) of the CR90. it's very much a small shot but there is enough base there to allow it.

It just goes against my grain to have the actual shot cross the line of the firing arc.

It just goes against my grain to have the actual shot cross the line of the firing arc.

Not sure what you mean by "actual shot." Line of sight may cross the vette's own arc line, but the arc itself, which i would consider to be akin to the "actual shot," encompasses part of the victory.

If attackers were allowed to cross enemy ship hull zones when declaring their target, you'd have cases where one ship would declare the right side of a ship as the target when it was firing from the target's left side. In other words, players would fire "through" ships to get to hull zones on opposite sides of the target. Of course that doesn't make any sense, so then FFG would need to come up with a bunch of rules pertaining to how you can only target adjacent hull zones when at particular angles to the ship, you can't fire through a ship ever, and so on.

It doesn't make much sense to me that you can fire through your own hull zones, but the target can't fire back along the exact same LOS at you. From a game mechanics standpoint I would love to hear why the developers allow this, and what they told the play testers when they pointed this facet out.

Allowing LOS to cross your arcs allows for your ship to target a single hull zone on an enemy ship with attacks from two of its own hull zones. If it didn't work this way you would have a very hard time achieving that.

It doesn't make much sense to me that you can fire through your own hull zones, but the target can't fire back along the exact same LOS at you. From a game mechanics standpoint I would love to hear why the developers allow this, and what they told the play testers when they pointed this facet out.

Imagine a world war 2 battleship. Now imagine their turreted guns. They can swivel only so far. If you are out of the arc they can swivel to (their covered arc), they can't shoot at you. But if you can see them, you can still shoot at them. And you can aim at the front of the ship as long as you can see said front.

Now, a Star Destroyer does not have turrets. What it does have seems to be a set of smaller guns scattered across the hull. They will each have their own, separate covered arcs, with armada abstracting this down to a covered arc which is the area where *all or most of* the section's guns can see and shoot.

This covered arc is not the same as the section of space from which some part of this section of guns can be fired *at*.

Sense made? Not well, possibly, but I'm low on time.

In general, "If you can shoot me I can shoot you" only works for targets/attackers which can be abstracted down to single points in space, and which have 360 degree arcs of fire.

It doesn't make much sense to me that you can fire through your own hull zones, but the target can't fire back along the exact same LOS at you. From a game mechanics standpoint I would love to hear why the developers allow this, and what they told the play testers when they pointed this facet out.

Imagine a world war 2 battleship. Now imagine their turreted guns. They can swivel only so far. If you are out of the arc they can swivel to (their covered arc), they can't shoot at you. But if you can see them, you can still shoot at them. And you can aim at the front of the ship as long as you can see said front.

Now, a Star Destroyer does not have turrets. What it does have seems to be a set of smaller guns scattered across the hull. They will each have their own, separate covered arcs, with armada abstracting this down to a covered arc which is the area where *all or most of* the section's guns can see and shoot.

This covered arc is not the same as the section of space from which some part of this section of guns can be fired *at*.

Sense made? Not well, possibly, but I'm low on time.

In general, "If you can shoot me I can shoot you" only works for targets/attackers which can be abstracted down to single points in space, and which have 360 degree arcs of fire.

The WWII battleship analogy is a good one. But, I think it does more to support my position than it does yours.

The main turreted guns of American battleships could cover an arc of roughly 300 degrees. Clearly far superior to the space battleships of Star Wars, but trying to print a bunch of different firing arcs on a ship template to consider all the different weaponry would make for a messy, cluttered template. So, we get what we have.

The smaller guns were mounted either on turrets or in casemates, but as you said they would all have a field of fire. Turreted weapons would generally have a greater field of fire.

I think we can safely take for granted that these smaller weapons would be mounted to the port and starboard of the ship. Using the original poster's picture, the rules clearly state that the side batteries are able to traverse far enough to fire on the rear hull zone of the Star Destroyer (since the Star Destroyer is in arc of the port battery and Line of Sight can be legally drawn from yellow dot to yellow dot). However, it is physically impossible for outgoing fire to be legal against a target and for returning fire to be illegal — lasers, blasters, what have you, are all direct fire weapons and cannot be lofted or otherwise use indirect fire to hit their target.

Even if, as you say, fire arcs represent a collection of different weapons with different firing arcs that may or may not be able to bring all their firepower to bear at any given time, it must also be true that the defender's weapons have the same capability. If the front arc of a ship — for whatever reason — does not impede the aiming or firing of port and starboard weaponry then that same front arc cannot provide any sort of cover for those same arcs. It simply doesn't make any sense.

I would go so far as to say the whole "yellow dot" system doesn't make any sense at all. What is it trying to do? Why not simply state, "You may fire at any enemy ship hull zone that you can draw a line of sight to, while that line remains with the firing arc of the attacking ship's hull zone. You may not cross one hull zone to target another"? Throw in an illustration or two and everyone would understand what's going on.

There was an example on the main forum of the all the zones of a VSD. A combination of all the Attack and defense zones incorporated into one. Very confusing, but at the same time it seemed to explain more. I would still pose that the game is trying to find a balance between projected shields, recessed turrets, and attack inclination. It's tough to figure out what's going on, mainly because no one has explained why the game mechanics are the way they are (do they even have to?). But more specifically this game is straddling the line between "Arcade Tabletop" game and "Strategy/Simulation Tabletop" game.

Don't know if this helps, but here you go:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/134386-firing-arc-be-hit-at-arc/?hl=%2Battack+%2Bzones

Here is some astonishingly bad MS Paint work showing the hittable arcs of the CR90 and VSD. If anyone can find top down views of the AF and Neb bases, i can do those too

Green = Shooter can hit front only

Brown = Shooter can hit front or side

Red = Shooter can hit side only

Orange = Shooter can hit side or rear

Yellow = Shooter can hit rear only.

Thin black lines are firing arcs for comparison.

You will see that the front arc of the Corvette is even worse....that thing is going to have to be incredibly careful.

Actually Tenuousgrip he's still right; okay 300 degrees is a lot but you still have parts where I could get in say a frigate and shoot your turrets but they can't shoot me back. It would be a tight shot; but could be done. Forget the other turrets for a moment and assume that I'm coming in from the front of your big ol' Battleship in a Frigate. Right, I have a front turret (1 to your 2; 2 guns to your 6) but your six guns at a moment before I get broadside are useless to you, they can't get quite far enough round to hit me even though my 2 guns can shoot them off (that's assuming my shells can penetrate which even in WW2 they would have it was range was the issue).

I know if you let me get that close then the Captain of the Battleship (or his crew or both) want shooting and deserve all they get but that's not the point.

Also as I thought about it after and it wouldn't let me edit my post: Remember the shape of the VSD/ISD; if you've played any of the canon games (X-Wing/XvsTie/Alliance/Battlefront) you'll realise the VSD and ISD both have a massive blind spot to the rear; and since this is a 2d game trying to represent a 3d battle environment; it now suddenly makes a lot of sense. As the CR90 could be in or partially in that blind spot. I think the designers expected the Ties to cover that so didn't put any guns near the engines. In one or 2 games it had a gun above them; but not below. and a couple on the top of the bridge structure.

Here are the simple steps in targeting using the targeting rules with the line of sight and obstruction expanded rules: Firing arc, line of sight, and range.

1. Choose an attacking firing arc (hull zone) and determine which enemy hulls zones are within the attacking firing arc (hull zone). These are the firing arc eligible defending hull zones. P.9 and 14

2. Determine the enemy hulls zones that are within line of sight of the attacking hull zone (yellow dot to yellow dot). If the line drawn is traced thru any other ENEMY hull zone that is not the defending hull zone it does not have line of sight. These are the line of sight eligible defending hull zones. P.19

3. Determine range from the attacking hull zone to the defending hull zone using the closest points on the attacking and defending hull zones. These are the range eligible defending hull zones. P.9 and 14

When the firing arc, the line of sight, and range eligibilties are all met, the defending hull zone can be targeted by that attacking hull zone. However, when reversing the attacker and defender, only the range is reversible, not the firing arcs, nor the line of sight If an attacking ship has a firing arc on a defending ship's defending hull zone, does not guarantee the defending ship has a firing arc from their defending hull zone back to the attacker's attacking hull zone. The same applies to line of sight. You have to apply all 3 steps for each attack.

The easiest way i can explain why the separate dot system is needed is to pretend that they arent there. Now, set up a shot within all other rules. Makr sure the attacking hull zone has any part of the defending hull zone in arc. Now keep moving the attacker up the side of the defender and see how far alongside you can move it and still shoot at the enemy's rear. It should begin to look a little ridiculous with two ships essentially alongside each other, but somehow shooting at the vulnerable rear areas.

Thematicalky, this may help to explain why the rules are the way they are, but should not ge confused with havung anything to do with the game rules. Rules need no explanation. They stand on their face.Think of the dots as showing the likely impact point of fire. If you see the rear of a ship taking up the viewscreen, but see a sliver of the side at an oblique angle of attack, you are likely to hit that masive rear. If you see both near equally, then you choose. Assume that the dice probabilities are set based on that large area of impact. To represent a commander wanting to take the impossible 179* shot, ffg would have to create charts of how to subract dice for this or that angle.