On page 19 it shows the Attack from the Vic.

If the Attack was from the CR90,

Could the front Arc hit the Front of the Vic?

It is clearly out of arc, but the Rule about crossing arc with the yellow dot seems to say it can.

Bit confused.

Line of sight and firing arc are two separate things: your target needs to be in your firing arc, and then you must also have line of sight (note that whilst the line of sight CAN go out of your arc, both conditions must still be met)

That is what I thought as it makes sense.

One reason I Dislike learning rules, just give me the Rules , if you want to make a quick play make a new book.

As presented in the rules it seems that is not the case.

The RR corrects it, but would have been nice if they had the reverse attack as another example to make it clear, that the dot was not over riding the arc.

Thanks again.

On page 19 it shows the Attack from the Vic.

If the Attack was from the CR90,

Could the front Arc hit the Front of the Vic?

It is clearly out of arc, but the Rule about crossing arc with the yellow dot seems to say it can.

Bit confused.

So arc and the line of sight measurement serve two distinct purposes.

Arc determines what ships you can attack.

Where as, the line of sight measurement determines what hull zones of an eligible ship you can attack, as well as whether your attacks are obstructed. If when you trace line of sight to the hull zone you intend to attack and this crosses an obstacle or another ship that isn't the defender, then the attack is obstructed. If you trace line of sight through a hull zone on the defending ship that isn't the target hull zone, then the attack is not possible.

Just because you have line of sight to your target, it does not mean that you can fire as the target must also be within arc.

So in the example you give, no the CR90 could not declare the front full zone of the VSD as the target of its attack as it is outside of arc despite being within Line of Sight.

From the Rules Reference:

• Page 2 Attack 1. Declare target: "Measure line of sight to the defender to ensure the attack is possible and to determine if it is obstructed."
• Page 2 Attack 1. Declare target: "...defending squadron or hull zone must be inside the attacking hull zone's firing arc..."
• Page 7 Line of Sight: "If line of sight is traced through a hull zone on the defender that is not the defending zone, the attacker does not have line of sight and must choose another target"
• Page 7 Line of Sight: "If line of sight is traced through an obstacle token or through a ship that is not the attacker or defender, the attack is obstructed"

Follow Up.

Los is to Dots.

Range is still base to base?

Dot to base?

Dot to Dot?

To me Dot to base would be proper, but that looks wrong.

Follow Up.

Los is to Dots.

Range is still base to base?

Dot to base?

Dot to Dot?

To me Dot to base would be proper, but that looks wrong.

Line of sight is dot to dot.

Range is from the closest part of your hull zone.

So on page 14 there is an example that shows Base to Base.

For Range.

Is that the only place it is talked about?

Sorry just making sure I understand the rules.

Seems Dot to base would have covered LOS and Range much easier, IMHO.

Got it, now.

Thank you all once more.

So on page 14 there is an example that shows Base to Base.

For Range.

Is that the only place it is talked about?

RR page 9 under "Range and Distance" defines the requirements for each of the range terms (At, beyond, within etc)

I believe FFG has needlessly confused everyone when they first read the Learn to Play, the Attack Example, and the rules. In the Learn to Play p19 and the Attack Example document (which is page 16 in the Learn to Play) the range ruler in the diagrams are being used for two different things and FFG should have used a separate diagram for the three steps, in the correct order, and adjacent to each other. In the Learn to Play, FFG skips the step of determining line of sight, when showing firing arc and range on p16. In order to keep attacking different from distance/moving, the Range Ruler is used as two different tools.

1. Draw a line out from the the arcs to see if the ship is within an arc, using the Range Ruler as a straight-edge, nothing more.
2. Then use the Range Ruler as a straight-edge to determine if a line of sights exists between your proposed attacking hull zone yellow dot and and the yellow dots on hull zones you would like to attack, The condition of that line of sight will allow, preclude or impact the attack.
3. Then, actually use the Range Ruler for range. Measure from closest part of the base within the hull that is attacking to the closest part of the base within the hull that is defending.

Diagram on Page 19, Range Ruler is being used for Line of Sight. Note the red transparency, I am not sure why its there, its too close for close range, but the odd shape corresponds to measuring range from base of a hull zone to the base of the target hull zone. Its just a messed up transparency. In the Attack Example document, the red transparency is showing firing arc despite growing dimmer over distance (Arc is arc, no matter how far out), the red arrow is showing line of sight and the Range Ruler is not being used correctly. Its not extending a firing arc, its not determining line or sight, and its being used wrong for determine the attack range.

In the rules on page 7, FFG basically uses the same terminology for light of sight and attack range measuring with a small nuance and I believe this introduces confusion. The nuance is "hullzone" vs "closest part of the hull zone." In Line of sight they clarify to use the yellow dot. Additionally, the rules say to measure the line of sight. (Do you see a tree, or do you measure the tree with your eyes?) For range attacking purposes, it just says to measure from the closest part of the attacking and defending hull zones. We have to infer that the attack range is from base to base because page 6 we have this little nugget under HULL ZONES (emphasis is FFG's!)

A hull zone is a section of a ship token delineated by the
two firing arc lines that border it. It does not include any
part of the plastic base.

So - on page 6, nothing on the plastic base is a hull zone. On Page 7, we measure a line of sight from the yellow dot - in the Hull Zone, from well inside the plastic base. So yeah, all of this can be very confusing.

And if I am wrong here, please, please correct me.

Yes.

Measuring Range has that one off side example.

If you had never played a mini game, I do not think it is enough.

The rules being broken down as they are do not help.

Give me one book with the rules, not this please.

Each has a few one liners that change the game.