Fio uses her form. Her opponent has no cards in hand. She attacks, and he enhances with TKOF2006, and she adds a card to her momentum. Can her opponent draw his momentum?

**REVISED**

If Fio's ability did not cause your opponent's hand to be empty, they will not be able to draw their momentum.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=30&efcid=5&efidt=83640

Apparently she can get rid of her opponents hand as long as the last card is from the ability played NOT from her ability.

The way i understood it, fios ability has to be the effect that puts the last card into your momentum for your opponent to get his hand back.

Im pretty sure its because its say....if your opponent has no cards in hand after that, then they may add the cards in thier momentum to thier hand

So basically, if Fio adds a card to her momentum, and her opponent has an empty hand, they'll get to draw their momentum? Sorry DGG, if this ruling stands, then that'll nerf the MCA too.

Antigoth said:

AFAIK "after that" is novel wording that was not covered by the TR, and is not covered by the AGR. [i know for a fact that it isn't in the AGR; the string only appears in 2.13.1 , which is about effects existing independently of their source]

I think the general reasoning behind the old ruling was that the phrase "after that" -- the key phrase in the effect, really -- refers to your opponent adding momentum, rather than any other part of the previous sentence. If you read the second sentence as "If your opponent has no cards in hand [after adding 1 card from their hand to their momentum], they may add their momentum to their hand." then unless your opponent did add a card from their hand to their momentum due to the first sentence, they cannot fulfil the condition (you can't fulfil "do X after Y" if you never did Y) and therefore there's no problem with never adding their momentum to hand from the perspective of "do as much as possible."

so are we going with a new ruling and overturning the old one...or are we going with the old one? i kinda need to know before any other tourney i wanna run fio at

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

I'll try and find time to talk to James later on this week about it.

tbh, as far as I can tell, your opponent having no cards in hand when you gain a momentum is the same as them having one card in hand when using KoF 2006 to gain momentum.

Gaining a momentum with KoF 2006 has always resulted in your opponent NOT getting his hand back afterwards because his last card was not added using Fio's ability, it's one of the cornerstone plays of the Fio deck. However, for Fio's ability to work logically, we have to have whatever momentum generation ability/cost fully resolve (i.e. the card reaches the momentum) before Fio's ability can start to resolve, which would mean that KoF 2006 would resolve and add a card from each player's hand to their momentum, after which, Fio would recognise that a card has been added to the momentum and look at your opponent's hand to add another. At this point, regardless of whether you had a card in hand when the momentum generation ability was used, in the time frame that Fio cares about there isn't a card in hand to add and so Fio's effect fizzles, no cards are added to momentum and, seeing that "that" from "after that" (which in this case HAS to be equivalent to "when your opponent adds the final card in their hand to their momentum due to this ability") has failed to happen, then there can be no "after that" and the rest of Fio's ability is not applicable.

If, as Antigoth is suggesting, we change "that" from "when your opponent adds the final card in their hand to their momentum due to this ability" to "when the Fio player adds a card to their momentum and the opponent then attempts to add a card to their momentum because of this ability, resolving as much as possible" then using KoF 2006 in Fio becomes a different play. You would use KoF 2006 to add the last card in the opponent's hand into their momentum, and after this new "that" where a card doesn't need to be added to get their momentum back, Fio would see that the last card in the opponent's hand was taken away already, try to add a card that wasn't there, but wasn't important as being there or not since the ability is going by "do what we can" then regardless of the result would add all the cards in your opponent's momentum into their hand.

I don't buy this argument of "it doesn't matter how many cards are in hand at the beginning of this ability, but if there's none at the end you get your cards back". Fio has never been played this way before, and I'll be **** displeased if this changes now for an arbitrary reason derived from a first glance by a guy on a forum (No disrespect at all Antigoth, you do a lot of good work to help out the rules, but I think you're very wrong in this case)

Since it's always been played that the last card in their hand has to be added through Fio to get their momentum back, I don't see how we can reverse it now and say that if no cards are added to the momentum, then they can still get their momentum back.

Cascade said:

No worries. I made an off the cuff ruling, fully aware that I was probably being baited to make a different ruling then one that existed. (Note my wording in how I responded) As previously stated, I'll talk to James about it later this week. Unless there is a reason for he and I to drop our respective deadlines and get this hashed out now now now.

I had asked origionally how the ability worked and it was thus ruled on by Omar (unfortunatly I can't find the link anymore). Hopefully Omar can back me up:

If you form with Fio, then use cards such as N Type Human to strip your opponant's hand away, so long as it is the card used (and not Fio's ability) that puts their last card into their momentum then Fio's ability won't trigger, as it does not have the chance to put a card into their momentum to begin with. Since the draw their momentum stuff happens after the ability is triggered, there is no trigger so the last sentence doesn't resolve.

Okay... previous answer I gave is overturned.

This is now noted for clarification in the AGR surrounding the "After that" wording for templating purposes or possible future "functional errata" / Omni-FAQ entry.

Antigoth said:

Sweet! im happy that they didnt overturn the old ruling thats been in place and that my deck still works the way the i want it 2 : )

i seriously think i can wreck face at worlds with her lets hope my words are true