Question on stealth in combat;

Character wants to use stealth in middle of combat rounds, in this particular case the character was already visible and had been shot at, they then used stealth to move and hide, succeeding. The next turn the character made another move manuever and stated that they did not need to do another stealth check as they had succeeded already.

If character succeeds do they now remain in "stealth" mode the remainder of the rounds? I would assume that attempting movement and/or doing a combat action (shoot, throw grenade, swing vibroblade) would negate the stealth, to some extent requiring another stealth check after such action to remain in stealth? I also assume that performing the stealth check counts as an "action" so theoretically would not be able to take a combat action the same turn as having attempted a stealth action.

I have some ideas on how I will handle this in the future, but will wait to see how others handle this.

I can't see how they would remain in "stealth mode". I'm assuming the purpose of using Stealth in combat would be either to avoid getting shot at in a future round, or surprise the enemy in a future round. The first should be pretty easy, and as long as they stay put they should be safer...but in this game there's not a lot of tactical specificity. The opponent can still spray the area with blaster fire, though the GM should give them appropriate setback dice.

For the second there are probably several ways to handle it. One way: Success here might mean you stay out of sight for the round, but you could still spend any Advantages/Triumphs as a normal combat roll to add boost dice or upgrades to your allies or your own attacks (assuming you attack next round). Eg: you might narrate that your disappearance is distracting so your ally gets a boost die.

There's more than one way to skin this, but I wouldn't let the PC remain in stealth mode.

You're stating a lot of skill checks but this is a narrative game, so "he made a stealth check", what does that mean? Were there things to hide behind? What did he hide behind? The narrative system also imposes a certain level of realism. Is it possible for him to even move from cover and not be spotted? Details of the layout of where this occurred and whether a stealth check is even appropriate or should be allowed are necessary to judge any use of the skill. Just because you have a skill doesn't mean you get to automatically use it.

When you played hide and go seek, how long did it take you to find a good hiding spot? Did you move once you found a spot? How hard is it to move around while remaining hidden with no one around? How bout with people actively looking for you? How bout the enviroment, would it be easy or hard to hide in the area you are at?

Also remember, a character's round could be anywhere from 30 seconds to 30 hours. This all depends on the narrative. Making an underworld knowledge check? It might take you all day to find an appropriate person, or with a few successes, an hour. The point here, once your player made a stealth check, how long did it take him? How long did he stay there? Not only that, how long do you think the mooks would continue to look for them in the same spot?

Just other food for thought.

For a REALLY good listen look for Skill Monkey ep5 titled "Sneaky Monkey".

The scene was a relatively thick jungle area with a river running through the middle. An imp outpost was across river from the characters who had been engaged already for a round or two. The charcter wanted to move across the river and succeeded in an opposed stealth check.

In retrospect the order in maneuvers and actions are important. A maneuver to cross the river followed by a stealth action to hide. Or

A stealth action before the move across the river, but then the crossing would have had to be at a slower rate in speed (an extra maneuver) otherwise risking increased cchance to be spotted.

The scene was a relatively thick jungle area with a river running through the middle. An imp outpost was across river from the characters who had been engaged already for a round or two. The charcter wanted to move across the river and succeeded in an opposed stealth check.

In retrospect the order in maneuvers and actions are important. A maneuver to cross the river followed by a stealth action to hide. Or

A stealth action before the move across the river, but then the crossing would have had to be at a slower rate in speed (an extra maneuver) otherwise risking increased cchance to be spotted.

I don't remember any speed rules outside of vehicles. Since the round is a variable amount of time it wouldn't need a second maneuver, it should just be narrated that the character is taking their time and being sneaky. Assuming they are.

I would actually have required the action and maneuver to occur simultaneously if they wanted to remain hidden and stealthy to the new position. Failure and threat could have resulted in all sorts of fun things with a river crossing. Be sure to look into the suffocation rules, they can be a LOT of fun. And water critters, and getting swept down river, and splashing too loudly, and ...

As to remaining in a "stealth mode", well I would allow it until it became relevant again. Perhaps treat it like immobilization - the victims don't know where the character is exactly until they either do something that would reveal their location or the opponent chooses to attempt and succeeds at a perception check. If they do something active, other than hide or sneak around, then they would need to re-roll for stealth. Depending on how obvious and attention grabbing the action/maneuver I would set blue/black dice accordingly.

A really good rule of thumb is not to roll unless you have to, or there you have a really good idea for a failure/threat/despair possibility. Keep it fun and fast moving.

Great ideas and advice.

Question on stealth in combat;

Character wants to use stealth in middle of combat rounds, in this particular case the character was already visible and had been shot at, they then used stealth to move and hide, succeeding. The next turn the character made another move manuever and stated that they did not need to do another stealth check as they had succeeded already.

Half right, half wrong. Also certain point of view.

Upon the first successful Stealth (action) he is hidden and could conceivably use a maneuver to move as part of that. Narrative use of Advantage/Threat/ect should be applied here. ("Three Threat. Ok, he lost you but he knows you are over there somewhere, so he can't shoot you directly but he can still just blindly spray and pray at +2 difficulty")

Now an opponent must make a Perception check (action) to be allowed to take any action on him directly unless the previous Stealth check generated results allowing otherwise.

Next Turn:

If the player wanted to go first, and move, I would ask for another stealth check, or require some other justification, probably related to the previous Stealth check. (Ok with that Triumph I want to be able to take a maneuver next turn without breaking Stealth) Exception to this MIGHT be if he had appropriate justification as to why he can't be seen (Stealth Field Generator).

The scene was a relatively thick jungle area with a river running through the middle. An imp outpost was across river from the characters who had been engaged already for a round or two. The charcter wanted to move across the river and succeeded in an opposed stealth check.

In retrospect the order in maneuvers and actions are important. A maneuver to cross the river followed by a stealth action to hide. Or

A stealth action before the move across the river, but then the crossing would have had to be at a slower rate in speed (an extra maneuver) otherwise risking increased cchance to be spotted.

If I have this description correct, move out of cover of a treeline and cross a river in front of an outpost, with opposition inside the outpost already engaging targets in the treeline he is exiting from? I wouldn't even allow a stealth check under those conditions. I would allow it if the plan was to sneak prior to the shooting starting, but not after, when people are actively engaging targets in the direction he is coming from. No one is that dumb and I don't play my Imperials like buffoons.

The scene was a relatively thick jungle area with a river running through the middle. An imp outpost was across river from the characters who had been engaged already for a round or two. The charcter wanted to move across the river and succeeded in an opposed stealth check.

In retrospect the order in maneuvers and actions are important. A maneuver to cross the river followed by a stealth action to hide. Or

A stealth action before the move across the river, but then the crossing would have had to be at a slower rate in speed (an extra maneuver) otherwise risking increased cchance to be spotted.

If I have this description correct, move out of cover of a treeline and cross a river in front of an outpost, with opposition inside the outpost already engaging targets in the treeline he is exiting from? I wouldn't even allow a stealth check under those conditions. I would allow it if the plan was to sneak prior to the shooting starting, but not after, when people are actively engaging targets in the direction he is coming from. No one is that dumb and I don't play my Imperials like buffoons.

It depends on the terrain. I could see a good roll reflecting the fact that the opponents are focused on the other intruders and perhaps there was a fallen tree or large rocks that the character could hide behind to enter the water. Sometimes the roll adds details to the setting and terrain.

I've run it like this, keeping in mind that a Combat Round is generally about a minute:

When a PC wishes to Stealth during combat they spend a Maneuver to Move to Cover (assuming there is any, you can consider cover anything that obscures view) then they roll their Stealth as their Action. If they succeed they made it to the new cover position and Opponents either do not know or no longer know where the PC is and cannot/no longer target them this Round (I add Setback dice liberally if the PC is trying to "Vanish in plain sight"). The PC can then immediately spend the two Strain and take a second Maneuver to move to different Cover without being seen or noticed, if such cover exists. Or the PC can use that second Maneuver to move to be Engaged with their Target to set up a Melee/Brawl Attack the next round without being targeted in the current Round (The PC waits until the last moment and pounces). Or the PC can use that Maneuver to Aim setting up a Ranged Attack for the next Round without being targetable).
If the PC chooses one of the "Sneak" Attacks they will become immediately targetable the next Combat Round so they should pay close attention the Initiative order, if the PC's Initiative is after their Opponent's those Opponents are going to get their Attack before the Stealthed PC gets their Attack. However the Stealthed PC will be Engaged or still in Cover depending on the type of Attack.

The Stealth remains until the PC Moves or does any Action. Any Advantage/Triumph/Threat/Despair can be applied normally (usually it's to add Boost dice PC's next attack or Stealth Action or Setback Dice to their Opponent's Action if they go first).

Although it took a paragraph to describe it's actually pretty simple when you play it out. Basically a successful Stealth Roll allows the PC to sneak from Cover to Cover )or potentially Cover to Engaged) for that Round and if the PC chooses to stop moving and to not do something that requires an Action can remain hidden and un-targetable until they do. As soon as the PC does another Move or Action the Stealth is broken and needs to be re-rolled.

The scene was a relatively thick jungle area with a river running through the middle. An imp outpost was across river from the characters who had been engaged already for a round or two. The charcter wanted to move across the river and succeeded in an opposed stealth check.

In retrospect the order in maneuvers and actions are important. A maneuver to cross the river followed by a stealth action to hide. Or

A stealth action before the move across the river, but then the crossing would have had to be at a slower rate in speed (an extra maneuver) otherwise risking increased cchance to be spotted.

If I have this description correct, move out of cover of a treeline and cross a river in front of an outpost, with opposition inside the outpost already engaging targets in the treeline he is exiting from? I wouldn't even allow a stealth check under those conditions. I would allow it if the plan was to sneak prior to the shooting starting, but not after, when people are actively engaging targets in the direction he is coming from. No one is that dumb and I don't play my Imperials like buffoons.

It depends on the terrain. I could see a good roll reflecting the fact that the opponents are focused on the other intruders and perhaps there was a fallen tree or large rocks that the character could hide behind to enter the water. Sometimes the roll adds details to the setting and terrain.

I've run it like this, keeping in mind that a Combat Round is generally about a minute:

When a PC wishes to Stealth during combat they spend a Maneuver to Move to Cover (assuming there is any, you can consider cover anything that obscures view) then they roll their Stealth as their Action. If they succeed they made it to the new cover position and Opponents either do not know or no longer know where the PC is and cannot/no longer target them this Round (I add Setback dice liberally if the PC is trying to "Vanish in plain sight"). The PC can then immediately spend the two Strain and take a second Maneuver to move to different Cover without being seen or noticed, if such cover exists. Or the PC can use that second Maneuver to move to be Engaged with their Target to set up a Melee/Brawl Attack the next round without being targeted in the current Round (The PC waits until the last moment and pounces). Or the PC can use that Maneuver to Aim setting up a Ranged Attack for the next Round without being targetable).

If the PC chooses one of the "Sneak" Attacks they will become immediately targetable the next Combat Round so they should pay close attention the Initiative order, if the PC's Initiative is after their Opponent's those Opponents are going to get their Attack before the Stealthed PC gets their Attack. However the Stealthed PC will be Engaged or still in Cover depending on the type of Attack.

The Stealth remains until the PC Moves or does any Action. Any Advantage/Triumph/Threat/Despair can be applied normally (usually it's to add Boost dice PC's next attack or Stealth Action or Setback Dice to their Opponent's Action if they go first).

Although it took a paragraph to describe it's actually pretty simple when you play it out. Basically a successful Stealth Roll allows the PC to sneak from Cover to Cover )or potentially Cover to Engaged) for that Round and if the PC chooses to stop moving and to not do something that requires an Action can remain hidden and un-targetable until they do. As soon as the PC does another Move or Action the Stealth is broken and needs to be re-rolled.

To each their own. I don't play Stealth like an invisibility spell.

@2P51 - and there really isn't a problem while every body is having fun.

I think of it less as an "invisibility spell" as opposed to using the themes and philosophy of the system.

I agree, but I don't think it's fun to just roll dice and make the effort/story fit the dice and I like to see players think. A plan and/or thinking is not, 'we attack, I roll a stealth check'. A plan is we have the slicer try and remotely access one of the perimeter alarms to be able to attack the sensors electronically, the gun bunnies circle the perimeter to the opposite side and launch a diversionary attack to draw attention away from the direction the Stealth guy is going to sneak in from. Simultaneously the gun bunnies attack and the slicer floods the enemy sensors with electronic garbage, the gun bunnies also 'accidentally' overshoot their side with some obscurant grenades to assist Stealth guy. Stealth guy sneaks up on the wall opposite the action under cover of smoke, confusion, and EW efforts, when he reaches the wall the gun bunnies withdraw in multiple directions drawing the Imperials out and lowering their numbers inside the compound. Stealth guy then places the charges and gets out and the whole team make their way back to the pre-planned rally point. That's a plan and role playing, then we roll dice. Again, to each their own but that's how 'we roll' at my table and the expectations.

To each their own. I don't play Stealth like an invisibility spell.

I'm pretty sure my approach isn't Invisibility. What I believe I've done is a good balance, the PC gets to sneak around avoiding being seen and targeted, but when they do something other than focus entirely on staying unobserved they get spotted. Stealth isn't going to work unless there is some cover (when I said I add Setbacks liberally for trying to hide in plain sight I mean 3-4 dice) and because a Round is about a minute I can justify plenty of ways a Stealthed PC could sneak up and pounce on an Target. Stealth only last for the Round it's rolled on unless the PC stays in place and doesn't use an Action. I don't penalize the Target beyond what Advantages a Player could allocate from their Stealth Roll (or what other PC's could add from their rolls). Basically the PC using Stealth can move about (with some restrictions) unseen, or at least un-noticed, and set themselves up to act, nothing more.

I agree, but I don't think it's fun to just roll dice and make the effort/story fit the dice and I like to see players think. A plan and/or thinking is not, 'we attack, I roll a stealth check'. A plan is we have the slicer try and remotely access one of the perimeter alarms to be able to attack the sensors electronically, the gun bunnies circle the perimeter to the opposite side and launch a diversionary attack to draw attention away from the direction the Stealth guy is going to sneak in from. Simultaneously the gun bunnies attack and the slicer floods the enemy sensors with electronic garbage, the gun bunnies also 'accidentally' overshoot their side with some obscurant grenades to assist Stealth guy. Stealth guy sneaks up on the wall opposite the action under cover of smoke, confusion, and EW efforts, when he reaches the wall the gun bunnies withdraw in multiple directions drawing the Imperials out and lowering their numbers inside the compound. Stealth guy then places the charges and gets out and the whole team make their way back to the pre-planned rally point. That's a plan and role playing, then we roll dice. Again, to each their own but that's how 'we roll' at my table and the expectations.

Planning is fantastic and opens up the narrative possibilities. I did not mean to suggest that a good description and/or plan from the party should be simply replaced by a single roll. How else would you come up with the blue/black dice? Not rolling unless you have to is the best rule of thumb for this game.

That said, quite often plans meet dice rolls and go...sideways? Adding unmentioned details (like the rocks or a distraction) can add to the verisimilitude of the results of the roll and really plays well with the co-op narration of the game.

"THIS ISN'T SKYRIM" I tell my fiancé every time she wants to stealth in awkward situations. The eyeball doesn't close and the NPCS don't shrug and pretend the arrow sticking out of their head has vanished.

I allow stealth before the action. To give a boost on an attack the enemy is not aware of. By all means a skill check during combat is allowed by the 'actions' part of their turn. Jumping behind barrels to be hidden would essential lose aggro in my opinion as the baddy cannot see or draw a bead on the stealthed target. Now if the terrain or cover is in such a way that the enemy couldn't tell where they moved to...no stealth check--- jumped behind a maze of shipping crates. But if it's like a single 3 foot by 3 foot by 3 foot crate...and they wanted to stealth to another obstacle I'd allow it but it would be a lot of setback. Essentially it could be played off as the baddy lost the LoS and tries to acquire it again but the stealthy guy is so nimble and fast he makes it to another piece of cover just as the baddy is scanning the wrong direction.

Otherwise if the area is littered with so much LOS terrain than no need as he can easily slink through the maze of cover.

"THIS ISN'T SKYRIM" I tell my fiancé every time she wants to stealth in awkward situations. The eyeball doesn't close and the NPCS don't shrug and pretend the arrow sticking out of their head has vanished.

I allow stealth before the action. To give a boost on an attack the enemy is not aware of. By all means a skill check during combat is allowed by the 'actions' part of their turn. Jumping behind barrels to be hidden would essential lose aggro in my opinion as the baddy cannot see or draw a bead on the stealthed target. Now if the terrain or cover is in such a way that the enemy couldn't tell where they moved to...no stealth check--- jumped behind a maze of shipping crates. But if it's like a single 3 foot by 3 foot by 3 foot crate...and they wanted to stealth to another obstacle I'd allow it but it would be a lot of setback. Essentially it could be played off as the baddy lost the LoS and tries to acquire it again but the stealthy guy is so nimble and fast he makes it to another piece of cover just as the baddy is scanning the wrong direction.

Otherwise if the area is littered with so much LOS terrain than no need as he can easily slink through the maze of cover.

I get where you are coming from but for those that haven't quite got it keep in mind that because a Combat Round is generally about a minute you can look at a successful Stealth roll as being that the PC moved at such a time that their Opponents were, as you've said, distracted or otherwise not looking. As the GM you can, and absolutely should, add plenty of Setback dice in situations where Cover or other environmental is sparse. I'm not arguing that Stealth during Combat should be easy just possible.

"THIS ISN'T SKYRIM" I tell my fiancé every time she wants to stealth in awkward situations. The eyeball doesn't close and the NPCS don't shrug and pretend the arrow sticking out of their head has vanished.

I allow stealth before the action. To give a boost on an attack the enemy is not aware of. By all means a skill check during combat is allowed by the 'actions' part of their turn. Jumping behind barrels to be hidden would essential lose aggro in my opinion as the baddy cannot see or draw a bead on the stealthed target. Now if the terrain or cover is in such a way that the enemy couldn't tell where they moved to...no stealth check--- jumped behind a maze of shipping crates. But if it's like a single 3 foot by 3 foot by 3 foot crate...and they wanted to stealth to another obstacle I'd allow it but it would be a lot of setback. Essentially it could be played off as the baddy lost the LoS and tries to acquire it again but the stealthy guy is so nimble and fast he makes it to another piece of cover just as the baddy is scanning the wrong direction.

Otherwise if the area is littered with so much LOS terrain than no need as he can easily slink through the maze of cover.

I get where you are coming from but for those that haven't quite got it keep in mind that because a Combat Round is generally about a minute you can look at a successful Stealth roll as being that the PC moved at such a time that their Opponents were, as you've said, distracted or otherwise not looking. As the GM you can, and absolutely should, add plenty of Setback dice in situations where Cover or other environmental is sparse. I'm not arguing that Stealth during Combat should be easy just possible.

Hey Greg, I don't think they have defined the round quite that well. Everything I have read keeps it nebulous and as long as it needs to be.

To each their own. I don't play Stealth like an invisibility spell.

I'm pretty sure my approach isn't Invisibility. What I believe I've done is a good balance, the PC gets to sneak around avoiding being seen and targeted, but when they do something other than focus entirely on staying unobserved they get spotted. Stealth isn't going to work unless there is some cover (when I said I add Setbacks liberally for trying to hide in plain sight I mean 3-4 dice) and because a Round is about a minute I can justify plenty of ways a Stealthed PC could sneak up and pounce on an Target. Stealth only last for the Round it's rolled on unless the PC stays in place and doesn't use an Action. I don't penalize the Target beyond what Advantages a Player could allocate from their Stealth Roll (or what other PC's could add from their rolls). Basically the PC using Stealth can move about (with some restrictions) unseen, or at least un-noticed, and set themselves up to act, nothing more.

If you allow hiding in plain site at all that's not Stealth imo, that's the 'one ring'.....

To each their own. I don't play Stealth like an invisibility spell.

I'm pretty sure my approach isn't Invisibility. What I believe I've done is a good balance, the PC gets to sneak around avoiding being seen and targeted, but when they do something other than focus entirely on staying unobserved they get spotted. Stealth isn't going to work unless there is some cover (when I said I add Setbacks liberally for trying to hide in plain sight I mean 3-4 dice) and because a Round is about a minute I can justify plenty of ways a Stealthed PC could sneak up and pounce on an Target. Stealth only last for the Round it's rolled on unless the PC stays in place and doesn't use an Action. I don't penalize the Target beyond what Advantages a Player could allocate from their Stealth Roll (or what other PC's could add from their rolls). Basically the PC using Stealth can move about (with some restrictions) unseen, or at least un-noticed, and set themselves up to act, nothing more.

If you allow hiding in plain site at all that's not Stealth imo, that's the 'one ring'.....

He never said anything about hiding in plain sight, simply the mechanics he would use in that example. In fact, he mentioned cover which can be used for concealment depending on the situation.

OK. My point was imo there's no such thing. Using the dice results to justify or create the circumstances/environment for its use strikes me as time travel.

It has to make sense

Hey Greg, I don't think they have defined the round quite that well. Everything I have read keeps it nebulous and as long as it needs to be.

Under Structured Gameplay Overview it says Rounds can last roughly a minute or so in time, I use that as a base. I understand that this can and will vary but unless there is a reason to do so I tend to leave it at about a minute.

If you allow hiding in plain site at all that's not Stealth imo, that's the 'one ring'.....

I agree and I wouldn't allow that sort of thing but honestly the plain sight thing hasn't come up. The closest was a Player who wanted to Stealth off of a landing platform and the only cover were the landing struts of the ship. He conceded that it wouldn't work but the next round he asked to flip a DP to see if there were maintenance gratings or such that he could get into and go that way. I said sure and let him roll Stealth to see if he could get to an open one without being noticed during the firefight. I don't remember exactly how many Setbacks I added, I think it was three because it was a pretty much open area. He waited to see if any of the other PCs got Advantages they could help him out with and he rolled. He made it and crawled under the Troopers (a second Stealth roll, though no Setback) and popped up behind them. It was actually pretty cool.

If there's something to use I'd allow a check. In the middle of an active firefight, probably not. To me stealth is something you use before the shooting starts, or if opponents didn't have line of sight, to lay an ambush.