Since I can't find anything in the rules that states you cannot roll a black die out of short range, I'm inclined to think it works at all ranges.

The range ruler disagrees with you. See "Targeting" page 12

But rules/statement on upgrade cards overrule the rules in the books (see golden rule, page 1). This appears to me to be a way to roll black dice at range since it does not specify at what range it works.

Since I can't find anything in the rules that states you cannot roll a black die out of short range, I'm inclined to think it works at all ranges.

The range ruler disagrees with you. See "Targeting" page 12

Is everyone forgetting the "Golden Rules"? Learn to Play Manual is superseded by the Rule Reference manual, and that is superseded by the card text themselves. This card tells you to add 1 black die to your dice pool, seems like that's the end of it, no?

This is also why the Dominator card explicitly limits the effect to close - medium range. FFG did not want the Victory adding the two blue dice to the attack pool for a long range attack.

@Jobu: Jinx!

This is also why the Dominator card explicitly limits the effect to close - medium range. FFG did not want the Victory adding the two blue dice to the attack pool for a long range attack.

that's actually a perfect example. it specifies on the card that it can only be used at close to medium range band. Therefore the black die can indeed be added to the attack pool at long range unless otherwise specified

I think Paragon, like Gallant Haven, is very situational, and more about playing into certain objective scenarios rather than the brute force that the Empire's crew, titles, and commanders have. I can see Paragon being useful when you're sitting on an objective or you're back far enough to have two hull zones in one arc. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it if you end up finding an objective list that would complement the title.

Good discussion in here.

And probably an important one to have early in the lifespan of the game, since the concept of unlimited range dice is a little bit unintuitive given the way the rules are built.

I see this as declaring an attack and target, forming your attack pool, and the Assault frigate will have two colors of die varying by which hull is used. Then the card says to add a black die to the attack pool. More specifically, on page 7, the rules say that die are also added to the attack pool of the appropriate color by game effects (lower right)

I don't think this ship needs two firing arcs on a single ship for the black die on just one attck. "You" I believe means the player. The word "you" does not even show up in the rules, so I look at it as the player, not the ship itself. The card effect is restricted to the ship because it is a ship upgrade and does not indicate anything about friendly ships, as so many other cards do. Furthermore, there is no specific order that a player needs to even setup his ships (I believe Xwing uses point order), or in attacking. Except that the Ship Phase takes place before the Squadron Phase (but squadrons can get activated by ships during the Ship Phase).

EDIT I AM WRONG. I created a custom rules manual from the original using a non-adobe editor. Not owning 7-8 of the fonts embedded in the rules .pdf, I imported the text as curves, or I would have alot of work recreating the symbols that FFG created for a custom font. I then easily deleted all the graphics, and read that a lot because it sooo much easier to read, and faster to page through - even at 33 Mb because the bitmaps for some reason burdened by Adobe Reader. The term "You" does refer to the ship as a poster corrected below and I mistakenly searched my new .pdf document that was full of only curves, and no text.

So, I see this as long at the target ship gets attacked before this ship is activated, the card can be used. One can't attack a ship twice from the same hull and it would be incredibly situational to require a double firing arc. . So - a ship that attacks prior, or squadrons activated by a squadron command that attack the target before the Paragon is activated would trigger the card. I hadn't thought of the double arc issue, but I would supposed the black die could be issued on the second attack by another hull zone if the target was not already attacked.

I see this as declaring an attack and target, forming your attack pool, and the Assault frigate will have two colors of die varying by which hull is used. Then the card says to add a black die to the attack pool. More specifically, on page 7, the rules say that die are also added to the attack pool of the appropriate color by game effects (lower right)

I don't think this ship needs two firing arcs on a single ship for the black die on just one attck. "You" I believe means the player. The word "you" does not even show up in the rules, so I look at it as the player, not the ship itself. The card effect is restricted to the ship because it is a ship upgrade and does not indicate anything about friendly ships, as so many other cards do. Furthermore, there is no specific order that a player needs to even setup his ships (I believe Xwing uses point order), or in attacking. Except that the Ship Phase takes place before the Squadron Phase (but squadrons can get activated by ships during the Ship Phase).

So, I see this as long at the target ship gets attacked before this ship is activated, the card can be used. One can't attack a ship twice from the same hull and it would be incredibly situational to require a double firing arc. . So - a ship that attacks prior, or squadrons activated by a squadron command that attack the target before the Paragon is activated would trigger the card. I hadn't thought of the double arc issue, but I would supposed the black die could be issued on the second attack by another hull zone if the target was not already attacked.

I like this interpretation. So, essentially the drawback Of Paragon is that it needs to go later compared to other ships, so the opposin player can react to your setup and move out of range of Paragon. (Excluding squadron commands).

So this is a good upgrade at 5 points.

I see this as declaring an attack and target, forming your attack pool, and the Assault frigate will have two colors of die varying by which hull is used. Then the card says to add a black die to the attack pool. More specifically, on page 7, the rules say that die are also added to the attack pool of the appropriate color by game effects (lower right)

I don't think this ship needs two firing arcs on a single ship for the black die on just one attck. "You" I believe means the player. The word "you" does not even show up in the rules, so I look at it as the player, not the ship itself. The card effect is restricted to the ship because it is a ship upgrade and does not indicate anything about friendly ships, as so many other cards do. Furthermore, there is no specific order that a player needs to even setup his ships (I believe Xwing uses point order), or in attacking. Except that the Ship Phase takes place before the Squadron Phase (but squadrons can get activated by ships during the Ship Phase).

So, I see this as long at the target ship gets attacked before this ship is activated, the card can be used. One can't attack a ship twice from the same hull and it would be incredibly situational to require a double firing arc. . So - a ship that attacks prior, or squadrons activated by a squadron command that attack the target before the Paragon is activated would trigger the card. I hadn't thought of the double arc issue, but I would supposed the black die could be issued on the second attack by another hull zone if the target was not already attacked.

You are not correct.

Page 13, Upgrade Cards bullet 7. "On upgrade card effects, the term "you" refers to the ship that the upgrade card is equipped to."

Also it IS POSSIBLE TO FIRE TWICE FROM THE SAME ARC, using the advanced gunnery objective

You are not correct.

Page 13, Upgrade Cards bullet 7. "On upgrade card effects, the term "you" refers to the ship that the upgrade card is equipped to."

You are right. I was using a custom pdf I made from the rules, and I imported the text as curves into a non-adobe editor because FFG had custom fonts in it for symbols and almost all fonts I don't already have that were embedded., so I could read it easier. Its so much easier to read without the graphics - I use that for reference mostly. So nothing will show up in a search.

Since "You" refers to the ship, why would the card refer to the ROUND, and not just the activation?

Since I can't find anything in the rules that states you cannot roll a black die out of short range, I'm inclined to think it works at all ranges.

The range ruler disagrees with you. See "Targeting" page 12

Is everyone forgetting the "Golden Rules"? Learn to Play Manual is superseded by the Rule Reference manual, and that is superseded by the card text themselves. This card tells you to add 1 black die to your dice pool, seems like that's the end of it, no?

Sure - if you can show me a black die printed on the range ruler at range 3. Trust me, I hope it is ruled that it adds a black die can be used at any range - I prefer Alliance, and I want to play the Paragon. But black die are, by definition on page 12, short range. But, if I can borrow an example from X-Wing, it would be like equipping a B4 Y wing with an ion turret and saying the ion turret can shoot at range 3 because B4 lets you fire bot weapons and your primary attack is range 1-3. If it's ruled to apply to all attacks I'll be overjoyed, but right now it seems black die are short range. If anything, you could add the die at long range but not roll it because it is out of range.

Since I can't find anything in the rules that states you cannot roll a black die out of short range, I'm inclined to think it works at all ranges.

The range ruler disagrees with you. See "Targeting" page 12

Is everyone forgetting the "Golden Rules"? Learn to Play Manual is superseded by the Rule Reference manual, and that is superseded by the card text themselves. This card tells you to add 1 black die to your dice pool, seems like that's the end of it, no?

Sure - if you can show me a black die printed on the range ruler at range 3. Trust me, I hope it is ruled that it adds a black die can be used at any range - I prefer Alliance, and I want to play the Paragon. But black die are, by definition on page 12, short range. But, if I can borrow an example from X-Wing, it would be like equipping a B4 Y wing with an ion turret and saying the ion turret can shoot at range 3 because B4 lets you fire bot weapons and your primary attack is range 1-3. If it's ruled to apply to all attacks I'll be overjoyed, but right now it seems black die are short range. If anything, you could add the die at long range but not roll it because it is out of range.

let me repeat my self

to clarify, everyone is getting confused with the difference between your attack pool (the dice you use in an attack) and your battery armament (the attack value of the ship)

Battery armament is range restricted but your attack pool has no such restrictions so paragon works at all ranges

For example Expanded launcher adds to the battery armament not the attack pool, so the dice from that are only useful at close range

Sure - if you can show me a black die printed on the range ruler at range 3.

Doesn't this cover it?

Page 7 on modifying die

Modifying Dice

Dice can be modified in the following ways by game effects:

• Reroll: When a die is rerolled, the attacker picks it up

and rolls it again. A die can be rerolled multiple times.

• Add: When a die is added, roll an unused die of the

appropriate color into the attack pool.

• Change: When a die is changed, rotate it to

Sure - if you can show me a black die printed on the range ruler at range 3. Trust me, I hope it is ruled that it adds a black die can be used at any range - I prefer Alliance, and I want to play the Paragon. But black die are, by definition on page 12, short range. But, if I can borrow an example from X-Wing, it would be like equipping a B4 Y wing with an ion turret and saying the ion turret can shoot at range 3 because B4 lets you fire bot weapons and your primary attack is range 1-3. If it's ruled to apply to all attacks I'll be overjoyed, but right now it seems black die are short range. If anything, you could add the die at long range but not roll it because it is out of range.

Which document are you referring to? I don't see dice definitions on page 12 of the most current pdfs of Rules Reference or Learn to Play.

I believe he means page 2 under ATTACK RANGE.

However, the card does mean the ship has had to have already attacked the target in the round. Is that the card's intent? It just seems unusual compared to the cards that I know of, that the ship will be required to use another upgrade, one objective out of 12, or be confined within a range of a angle of attack - for just one die.

It can also trigger off of 2 arc attacks

Hence why I said it's very situational.

Which is why it is only 5 points

OK, I see dice definition there. Saying the max range of the armament is dependent on the presence of at least one of those colored dice. But it doesn't say the colors cannot be rolled if they wind up in the dice pool. I mean why do they say it differently in different titles:

It can also trigger off of 2 arc attacks

But the black die only enters on the 2nd attack.

But the card's use of "round" is superfluous. All ships are limited to two attacks against ships in an activation by rules.

It can also trigger off of 2 arc attacks

But the black die only enters on the 2nd attack.

But the card's use of "round" is superfluous. All ships are limited to two attacks against ships in a round by rules.

Yet unrevealed upgrade card that allows more than 2 attacks in a round?

I mean, we already have a title coming that splits attacks up to before and after movement. No reason we couldn't see something to allow an alpha strike early in a round before full activation, or a late attack after activation.