I have been toying with the Idea with the PC's are all Imps playing TIE pilots, they are fresh out of the acadamy doing Star Destroyer rotation or smaller Imp ship rotation.

Anybody have any ideas where to start?

Roll up a BUNCH of alt characters. :-)

I posted our alt-rules for space combat in the alternatives thread, it has been working pretty well for us. Some sort of "fix" will be needed if you want your PCs to last any length of time. If nothing else, you will need to provide a never ending stream of allied cannon fodder to keep your PCs alive. Snub fighters (especially TIEs) are just way too weak in the standard rules for your PCs to survive many battles in them.

It boiled down to: Evading ships cannot aim, and their gunners cannot aim either. If you successfully Gain the Advantage against a ship you get to take a free shot at them with a fixed-forward weapon, and GtA can be contested if the target ship wants to "fight you for it".

Look to the early missions of TIE Fighter (the plot of that game and that of some of the old novels is great for story ideas) for intro session ideas; not every battle is Endor. Remember that the Empire almost always has an upper hand in space between numbers and superior capital ships; especially if they choose the terms of the battle.

Also remember that players aren't killed in ships unless the ship is outright destroyed by a critical, so come up with an ejection mechanic (and yes, the TIE series does have ejector seats, they just aren't used in some cases because of fear of suffocation or a lack of time). I allow ejection as either automatic or as an Incidental action.

These are PC's, not Rivals or even Nemeses, and as such they're gonna automatically be better at piloting than 65-70% of the TiE pilots out there simply by dint of better resources to make characters with.

Next, get them the hell out of the stock TiE's. I would put them in a mixed squadron that's often called on to do special duty. This means characters can fly TiE Interceptors and TiE Bombers as they like. As the game goes on, I'd bring in TiE Advanced's (Vader's TiE wasn't the only one of its kind and he wasn't the only Imperial to regularly use it in battle, there was an entire squadron that used them according to Wookiepedia), TiE Interceptors, TiE Phantoms and TiE Defenders.

If the campaign lasts long enough, you can mix it up by having the PC"s be part of the Imperial Remnant that attacks Coruscant as part of the Dark Empire timeline and you can stick-em in TiE Tanks! LOADS of fun for a change of pace.

And don't be afraid to bring in new, non-canon TiE's. Deviant Art for instance has all sorts of people giving their take on TiE Fighters, stock and concept. Raid them for ideas for new and shiny experimental craft.

The important thing is to keep them from constantly doing the same thing.

But for the love of God, get them out of the stock TiE fighters...

The characters wouldn't be any different in terms of generation and development, though you might have to tweak the Duty items.

To add options to the TIEs-are-fragile issue, you could assign each pilot a disposable wingman minion:

- They fly as a pair

- The wingman doesn't get an initiative slot or roll any attack dice.

- The wingman always takes damage first.

- While the wingman is alive, change the character's TIE weapon to add +1 damage, and change from Linked-2 to Linked-3

For bigger battles, add disposable-wingmen as you see fit. Add +1 damage for each extra minion (but no need to buff Linked).

That should keep the characters in play a bit longer, and give a sense of a bigger battle without having to roll more dice or have long initiative lists.

I have been toying with the Idea with the PC's are all Imps playing TIE pilots, they are fresh out of the acadamy doing Star Destroyer rotation or smaller Imp ship rotation.

Anybody have any ideas where to start?

I'm actually doing the same.

Learn to use the squadron rules found in the GM screen booklet. Giving your players each at least 3 wingmen will make their TIES much more survivable. The squadron rules were practically made to allow TIE pilot PCs to fly actual TIE/ln repeatedly and live to tell about it.

Expect everyone to take piloting specs. Go ahead and leave it open to all of em, even the Smuggler:Pilot (some pilots are also sleazy, it's good) and Starfighter Ace (he doesn't have to know he's a force sensitive). Yes they are all TIE pilots, but they don't have to be cookie cutters of each other. Gunner, Squadron Leader, all totally viable. You want flavor as well as competence.

Don't hesitate to toss a little extra XP at them for a secondary Spec that ISN'T pilot centric. That'll give them more to do off craft, and give you as the GM more leg room to come up with adventures that don't require six space encounters in a row.

Be thinking about other things the characters can do outside of the cockpit of a TIE. The same guys fly transports, shuttles, have leave, do training rotations and so on. The Empire is a big place, make sure they see it.

Perhaps a wing of experimental TIEs with Shields...?

I think people all too often forget that getting Taken Out means just that... not killed, not sploded, not even unconscious, necessarily... just taken out of the current combat in a way that serves the story.

I have been toying with the Idea with the PC's are all Imps playing TIE pilots, they are fresh out of the acadamy doing Star Destroyer rotation or smaller Imp ship rotation.

Anybody have any ideas where to start?

I'm actually doing the same.

Learn to use the squadron rules found in the GM screen booklet. Giving your players each at least 3 wingmen will make their TIES much more survivable. The squadron rules were practically made to allow TIE pilot PCs to fly actual TIE/ln repeatedly and live to tell about it.

There are no Squadron Rules in the EotE Core book or GM Screen.

I have been toying with the Idea with the PC's are all Imps playing TIE pilots, they are fresh out of the acadamy doing Star Destroyer rotation or smaller Imp ship rotation.

Anybody have any ideas where to start?

I'm actually doing the same.

Learn to use the squadron rules found in the GM screen booklet. Giving your players each at least 3 wingmen will make their TIES much more survivable. The squadron rules were practically made to allow TIE pilot PCs to fly actual TIE/ln repeatedly and live to tell about it.

There are no Squadron Rules in the EotE Core book or GM Screen.

No, you will find them in the AoR GM Kit.

I have been toying with the Idea with the PC's are all Imps playing TIE pilots, they are fresh out of the acadamy doing Star Destroyer rotation or smaller Imp ship rotation.

Anybody have any ideas where to start?

I'm actually doing the same.

Learn to use the squadron rules found in the GM screen booklet. Giving your players each at least 3 wingmen will make their TIES much more survivable. The squadron rules were practically made to allow TIE pilot PCs to fly actual TIE/ln repeatedly and live to tell about it.

There are no Squadron Rules in the EotE Core book or GM Screen.

No, you will find them in the AoR GM Kit.

That's what I meant... dang divided forums...

I have been toying with the Idea with the PC's are all Imps playing TIE pilots, they are fresh out of the acadamy doing Star Destroyer rotation or smaller Imp ship rotation.

Anybody have any ideas where to start?

I'm actually doing the same.

Learn to use the squadron rules found in the GM screen booklet. Giving your players each at least 3 wingmen will make their TIES much more survivable. The squadron rules were practically made to allow TIE pilot PCs to fly actual TIE/ln repeatedly and live to tell about it.

There are no Squadron Rules in the EotE Core book or GM Screen.

No, you will find them in the AoR GM Kit.

That's what I meant... dang divided forums...

Even if they weren't divided, just saying "GM Screen" isn't really enough information for everyone to know which GM Screen you mean. Especially with a third one on the way...

Yes, but this being what amounts to an AoR thread in the EotE Forums (which also acts as the default Star Wars forum) doesn't help any either...

I have been toying with the Idea with the PC's are all Imps playing TIE pilots, they are fresh out of the acadamy doing Star Destroyer rotation or smaller Imp ship rotation.

Anybody have any ideas where to start?

I'm actually doing the same.

Learn to use the squadron rules found in the GM screen booklet. Giving your players each at least 3 wingmen will make their TIES much more survivable. The squadron rules were practically made to allow TIE pilot PCs to fly actual TIE/ln repeatedly and live to tell about it.

There are no Squadron Rules in the EotE Core book or GM Screen.

No, you will find them in the AoR GM Kit.

That's what I meant... dang divided forums...

Even if they weren't divided, just saying "GM Screen" isn't really enough information for everyone to know which GM Screen you mean. Especially with a third one on the way...

Don't worry, I am working on the final touches to a compiled index for the game. It includes where rules like that can be found and in which book. This system needs it desperately, especially for new players who don't own everything.

The important thing is to keep them from constantly doing the same thing.

I think for a group of PCs they need to eventually be part of some sort of "special ops" squadron. At the start of the campaign, they could start off in some normal TIEs, but of course their actions will quickly get them noticed and thus passed upwards to an elite squadron (TIE interceptors) then eventually a special ops squadron. By this time your players may have become bored of the usual starfighter battle anyway. They've been there, done that, several times.

So, look to TV for some inspiration. Space: Above & Beyond and Battlestar Galactica (old & new) comes to mind. The primary characters were starfighter pilots, but they weren't always just piloting their starfighters. Being stationed on a Star Destroyer means you have lots of different kinds of NPCs to rub shoulders with from mission to mission. You could have some sinister secret plot stuff going on that the PCs stumble upon. Is that Imperial Commander trying to recruit us for some ultra-secret pro-Imperial missions or is he secretly a Rebel? You could also look to the old TIE Fighter flight simulator game. It included a secret fighter pilot's order that answered to the Emperor iirc.

Also note that just because you are "TIE Fighter pilots" doesn't mean you can't fly anything else. Lambda shuttles, personal transports, short range cargo skiffs, dropships, all need someone to fly them... and can all get you in plenty of trouble...

`Tis a sad ship when you need a friendly minion group to not get the PCs killed in the first round!

I blame the Linked quality, I'm starting to not like it as a concept, because if you manage to get a Linked shot, or get hit by one, the fight is over. The swing is too high. I think it's why so many people had no problem with the fight at the end of the Beginner game, and for so many others, like me, the PCs barely escaped.

If you look at how WEG handled starfighter weapon damage, the max dice assumed you were firing all your lasers at once. For an X-Wing this might be 6D. If you fired them one at a time they weren't 1.5D each, the base was something like 4D. I'm not sure, but I think an equivalent might be that each Linked adds +1 or +2 damage; or an alternative might be to give a ship a max damage, but the offer tactical options for firing half or quarter of your weapons.

Thanks for the ideas, you all have been very insperatinal.

And one last question since the Chiss have been with the Empire for some time what would you think of the near Human ailens?

Paranoia had six, I believe, identical clones of each character, so you only had to roll a new one every sixth session.

Thanks for the ideas, you all have been very insperatinal.

And one last question since the Chiss have been with the Empire for some time what would you think of the near Human ailens?

The Chiss haven't been with the Empire at all. They live in the Unknown Regions and generally don't like contact with others outside that region.

I blame the Linked quality, I'm starting to not like it as a concept, because if you manage to get a Linked shot, or get hit by one, the fight is over. The swing is too high. I think it's why so many people had no problem with the fight at the end of the Beginner game, and for so many others, like me, the PCs barely escaped.

If you look at how WEG handled starfighter weapon damage, the max dice assumed you were firing all your lasers at once. For an X-Wing this might be 6D. If you fired them one at a time they weren't 1.5D each, the base was something like 4D. I'm not sure, but I think an equivalent might be that each Linked adds +1 or +2 damage; or an alternative might be to give a ship a max damage, but the offer tactical options for firing half or quarter of your weapons.

But in D6 the soak for the damage applied once to the entire hit whereas soak in FFG applies to each shot that hits.

Also, in D6 you had the choice of making many shots, but taking a big dice penalty or just taking one shot and being done. E.g. you could pilot and take 4 shots in the X-wing, but you'd be doing all those rolls at -4D (means if you had shooting of 3 or 4D you'd be unable to succeed), or you could pilot and do 2 shots that were linked (-2D to each roll and roll 5D damage for each hit) or just pilot and shoot (-1D to each roll).

A few things to consider:

The first has been mentioned, but should be repeated, when your ship is over its hull trauma it is not destroyed. While the GM can say NPC's go boom for flavour, players don't. The idea is to keep the story going. Inperial recovery ships, tractor beams, etc.

Second, think organically when you run foes. There is he fight or flight mentality. Most people will want to not throw their life away, so run your NPC's as if they don't want to die. This changes the tactics many will go for. they may scatter, break formations, attempt to run rather than fight - after all, fighters are short range craft there is likely a star desyroyer or other Capitol ship nearby, which you can't win against. Han ran away ALL the time.

Also, if the players demand surrender as agents of the empire, have some enemies do that. C-3P0 surrender is a perfectly valid option.

As a GM you can influence the game style. If all your NPC's do is go In guns blazing, and never try other maneuvers, then that is all players will do, and react to. If you make your fodder try to gain the advantage, fly defensively, or just all out run, then you limit how much they attack and the players can try different things.

Finally, and related to the first point, the empire manufactures thousands of more TIE fighters. If one is damaged or "destroyed" the player will get a new one next mission. The empire players can go all offense more easily because of this. If your damaged ship is guaranteed to be at full capacity and you don't need to wait or pay for repairs, who cares? However, if you keep getting shot down, you won't get promoted to an TIE interceptor or Bomber (think a version of procure tech duty) Imperial players should NEVER have to worry about buying their own gear, maintaining it (unless part of their character) or having to pay for food, fuel, healing, etc. give the players a monthly salary, I generally base this off then pay soldiers would get in the 70's. It is low, but the Empire provides. The Empire is Mother, the Empire is Father.

A lot of good ideas here.

Look to that TIE Wars video for how PCs should be playing.

Maybe buff up the TIEs a little, and for PCs, stick them in upgraded craft or Interceptors. These guys should be like the 181st Imperial Fighter Wing in terms of skill an logistical support.

The problem isn't necessarily solely with TIEs being fragile, it's how all ships are much ore fragile on their combat scale than PCs are as people on their normal combat scale. So maybe look at one of the home-brew alternatives.

I would say, give some ground missions and encourage diversification of Career and Spec. It can get old when all the PCs have basically the same capabilities. AoR is probably a better base "system" just because you have much more military career/spec options available. A Hotshot or Commodore might be given an Interceptor while a Rigger or Gunner gets a bomber to kit out, etc.

TIE Fighter Video for inspiration