Meridien said:

The problem I see with the "dominant packages", I don't see how Calixian Pattern Killings is superior at all. You just need to become an Intelligencer to get the Talented (Inquiry) talent, and +5 Intelligence is normally 100, leaving up to the package's cost of 200 exp. Unless of course, Intelligencer is statistically better than Proctor as well. Then we'd have the whole career in loops. I'm fully under the idea that all three Guardsmen packages are perfectly viable, especially the Unshakable Faith one for a new character. Malygrisian Tech-Heresy comes with possible penalty of death, which I always prefer to shy away from (Astral Knives, please?) and give a lower opinion too. That, I'll give may just be me, as such, Aethel can attest to how my mouth sometimes slips the wrong information I should never say.

What could you give for the other background packages AS options? Why can't Elite Advances fill in the gaps, since there is never a lack of options, only up to the the point that the GM allows.

I still keep my stance on nerfing those two packages to bring them in line. They're simply too good. My opinion, nerf, or raise the cost to what it's worth in comparison to the other packages. Keeping those at 300xp each is sheer insanity.

Is there going to be a full Inquisitor's Handbook Errata coming? Pwease?

Meridien said:

Almost all of those give you Insanity Points and.or Corruption Points, though.

bogi_khaosa said:

Sure, they do. However, so does Astral Knives for example: +5 corruption points and a member of a cult deemed heretical. You get nothing from that package worth the value of the negative.

As for:

"I still keep my stance on nerfing those two packages to bring them in line. They're simply too good. My opinion, nerf, or raise the cost to what it's worth in comparison to the other packages. Keeping those at 300xp each is sheer insanity."

The main problem is how. I fully agree that the packages are superior to the point that there is no reason to take the others. I'd say increasing the XP cost to 400 or even 500 might be a better solution, as well as increasing say the -5 to fellowship on Moritat to a -10 and making it 1d10 insanity points or 1d5+5. In our campaign, after myself, I can't see anyone taking the package in our group - ever. The main problem is it shoe-horns that character into such a narrow path that the character is rendered practically pointless on reaching the upper levels of the DH system. By the time PCs are there, they're using far superior weaponry. A powersword will outclass a Lathe weapon most of the time, and one is far easier to attain. On that note, you raised that the Moritat only neds to acquire a few weapons and then they are fine, narrowing the amount of weapons only makes that list shorter. With an above average WP of 40 or even 45, that's only a 20-25 percent chance to pass the WP test to use a different weapon. If the character is stuck using throwing knives for range and basic swords for melee, the role they were looking to fill in the party they simply can't do. The WP test divides weapons into those the Moritat will not use and those he's quite good at.

It's a tough call and something that needs to be addressed by FFG. Whatever works.

Depends on the style of game, I suppose. I tend to run a relatively lore- and investigation-based game (a la Call of Cthulhu) in which the Astral Knife's Forbidden Lore (Warp) could come in quite handy.

Something else to keep in mind here I think is that Moritat is not an option for a Void-Born Assassin. If an Assassin takes the Moritat background, he's also giving up on any perks he might desire from VB, including the Calixis Battlefleet option (with its nifty Close-Quarters Fighter feature). Astral Knives is the Void Born option. (And far cooler than Moritat anyway )

Not to mention that not being able to use high-tech ranged weapons with any reliability can be a serious, serious flaw.

Meridien said:

I don't see how lowering a Moritat's fellowship will help at all. They don't talk to begin with. It's like, saying, giving a negative to all Forbidden Lores for Moritats. They get two at the last rank.

Using superior weaponry? At the current moment, a Compound Bow is all a Moritat Assassin needs for ranged. Get Mighty Shot and a decent Ballistic Skill, you have the chance of rolling 4d10+4 and picking the three highest damage dice. With mono'ing those arrows, that really sucks. It's nearly better than a Fatebringer (in my opinion). If that isn't good enough to kill the majority of enemies, I don't know what is anymore. Or the mono'd (or lathe) great weapon for that matter. Power swords always being better than lathe weapons? Lathe Great Weapons take that cake. If you meant with those rules, I don't know about you, but none of the guys are planning on even getting close to dieing.

I see that class as being a power-gaming class, since it already limits your fields whole-entirely to only muscle work, unless you do incredible lengths to make it otherwise. Moritats don't really have motivations to do anything else. And with all muscle, it's going to leave you up to whomever is strongest.

If you're going to ask, why have muscle then, by your point they'd be nearly useless, I'd have to agree. Generally they have no personality, or to be fully competitive, they require to really stay in the combat range. Tybalt, our super-support character was able to survive doing the end-boss with Victoria (who wasn't as useful as one may think, due to dice) because he simply used his brain. The guy with SB and TB of 2, was able to take down 5 enemies by himself. Just because he had an autogun and used suppressing.

As well, that main problem is what I see already. By the time your character will have a lathe, someone will have a MP Lascannon, or Autocannon. I do admit I do not like that background package whatsoever. It may be I see it as so incredibly overwhelming in the beginning of the game, and then so frankly useless at the end. I will not lie saying this, Marko has replaced and nearly removed your character's role as a melee combatist, he's only taking things to help him in that aspect, nothing else. The only thing you've got on him is being an Untouchable. He still has the ability to remove Overbleed (Psyniscience expanded in the Inquisitor Handbook). So far, the group is ending up chasing a Tech-Priest (only escapee of the August Seas) and an augmetic lady (killed a character's date).

Because of this campaign, it's really brought to light those two packages, and I heavily disdain them. It's convinced me more and more to re-write stuff, and go against James' recommendations of a combat a session. I've reverted back to my way of, the only combats I write are the necessary ones. Every other ones are the ones the Acolytes themselves cause.

Personally in my games anyone who writes a good background gets a number of bonus skills and talents. If a PCs takes one of the better background packages they better have a written background, and get fewer bonus talents/skills. Also if a good is lacking in a given area their boss provides training. Thus most PCs in my games can sneak, notice things, ask questions, swim, climb and etc fairly well.

Dalnor Surloc said:

I'd like to do that. The only problem is, two of my players have english disabilities, neither cannot read and go behind the words (and get an underlying message for example) nor write (writing overall is a problem) pretty well. I've gone to school with them, and was in their English classes nearly every year, I know they are not screwing around with me (proofreading their stuff made me cry ).

So if I did stuff by background they provide, it'd really fall onto three guys getting buffs and two getting confused looks on what a "concussor" is, for example. With the note of a guy lacking in a given area, generally everyone fills up a different area (incredibly sneaky talker, the thinking tank, utterly ranged sister of death), except two close combatists who are fighting to be the better close combatant. If they requisition for skill training, and provide a decent reason, they can get nearly anything as an elite advance. I generally do not, if ever, give out talents. Those are really the main things given to a career path to make it unique. My stance on that is nigh unchangable.

Ahahah, yeah. The Moritat versus the Templar on who is better at melee. I'm waiting for the day we some-how get stuck in the middle of a huge melee battle and we start calling out kill counts like they did in the Two Towers.