"No matter what you do, statistically, on average when BRT is used you will check a 0. You have exactly the same chance to have an attack be revealed by BRT than using an attack as that check."

Did you think about this for more than thirty seconds before posting it? If you reveal an attack, there's now one less attack in your deck and there are (probably) more foundations than attacks left in your deck, so if you reveal a 2-4 initially, the odds are much higher that you will check >0.

Run more 2-4 and a handful of 6 checks and BRT will have significantly less impact.

Just read my signature... I wrote it just after seeing cards like Addes and BRT.

BRT is the best foundation in the game, it does so many things,

is undercosted,

great block,

spammable,

if 2 hit the table on the first turn of the game, your opponent scoops...

It can prevent blocking,

provides card draw at almost any time,

nearly cancel ANY card or ability that requires a control check ,

screws over the Combo keyword,

usable on yourself,

is very similar to a stun mechanic if the opponent chooses to pass the check.,

costs like $30-$40 a copy if you can find it.

Can result in a NEGATIVE control check, which violates most rules in most card games...

It can win games when used in any fashion.

I have seen someone hack their own card, draw a card from that, and ended up drawing into their kill card..

This card just does not end. I despise it's existance. Serious. Did I mention it scares away new players? That alone is rediculous. They usually say. "It makes me feel like I can't play the game." You can draw up all the lists of counters you want, but none of those answers are even close to what this card can do. By the way that is just ONE copy in play. Unique keyword may be the only answer.

My other agrument is this:

Let's just change the numbers around a bit, even IF it was a 6 difficulty foundation, it would still see play. If it was a 3 cc, you bet you'll still see it. Even if you remove the block altogether, it would still be usable. Sure there is a risk to using the card, but more often than not it works in the controllers favor. Those who say that it's just a speed bonus, that is very true but that only covers a 10th of what this card can do. Also with speed, you can always boost it back with something else. Control checks, not so much.

When you start printing cards with static abilities just to get around this card, that is a BIG problem.

Akuma's -4 cc hax is a bit more balanced because you might as well slap a Unique keyword on it. Tag Along can't stop BRT.

Tagrineth said:

Well, your point started with an IF. Conditional probabilities are another story. I've actually thought about this, and if BRT is triggered and nothing interferes on it, two random cards from your deck are used for the CC, the first on negative and the second on positive. You can do the average, and it will be 0 because each pair of cards will be balanced by the same pair of cards, but on the opposite order.

Of course, IF you reveal a 2-4, the chances of checking >0 are higher, but IF you don't, then the chances of <0 are also higher. Do the math and it is 0 on average, no matter the deck, that will only effect the variance.

Ok, so final round of Swiss at the regional today. Hilde Vs. Hilde. Time has been called, it's the final turn, 3rd match of best two out of three. Winner goes undefeated into the final, looser gets diversified out of the cut.

Hilde drops a Heel Snipe to commit one of the two healers, plays a dual wielding, BRT's it twice (The player uses their own BRT on their dual wielding), draws into a second Heel Snipe (via the second BRT) which is then used to commit out the Second Healer for the Win.

Some folks were then discussing that BRT is too powerful because it allows that. I'm relating the story, because it's topical, and earlier in the thread, I stated that BRT didn't help the deck. In this one instance it did. (I didn't have the time to alter the deck before the tournament today.)

Antigoth said:

So 2 BRTs are broken because it allows you to cycle 2 cards while at the same time giving your opponent 2 free draws? Why not run controler of souls or fatherly love?

All the cards i previously mentioned have applications out side of what was originally intended, just like BRT. KOF2006 can help you cycle faster as can Exp and Anti K. I've even used anti k to hax checks in order to fill my discard pile so I wouldn't deck before. So once again, there are more reasons why BRT is not an issue.

I don't think BRT is too much of a problem.

Infact I an so sure it isn't I ate one. Om nom nom nom nom nom nom nom.

It was foily ^.^

"if 2 hit the table on the first turn of the game, your opponent scoops... "

weak-minded players that don't know what they're doing scoop. I've stared down 4x BRT by turn 3 and still won games.

Tagrineth said:

Tag is correct.

I've played against 3x BRT on my first turn and still beat ass. Plenty of times, yo.

Protoaddict said:

Woah Freddie Boy!!!

Hey, I was just relating an anecdote. Something that happened today that I thought was really cool personally, and made for some great in game drama.

Did I say it was broken? Earlier in the thread I said BRT had done nothing for the deck. To the point where I was seriouslly considdering stripping them out all together because they weren't being benficial for the deck. Since they actually did something useful, I thought I'd relay it. Especially since it was something that people don't normally complain about BRT doing.

P.S. My opponent also had BRT's in his Hilde. However he kept discarding his, something about my Destiny's making them useless.

Shaneth said:

Good for you. My **Genjuro** never once lost to F&G Hugo. I haven't lost to any Red Lotus-Calibur-**Ibuki**. I've never had any problems being Olcadan's'd, and I've won games while staring down 4 Chester's Backings

BUT OMGZORZ LOOK AT THE COINCIDENCES! IT'S UNCANNY! I GUESS BROKEN CARDS DON'T DESERVE BEING BANNED WHEN THE SOLUTION IS SIMPLE:

WIN GAMES!

MarcoPulleaux said:

Actually, my Genjuro never did lose to F&G Hugo. I never had any problems playing against the Lotus/Caliber Ibuki. I never did have any problems being Olcadans'd, and I've won games while staring down 4x Chester's Backing.

I can play hardball too, sir.

=/

Once again

I'm not picking on you in particular; there are other posters I could've quoted, yours just so happened to be there.

All I'm saying is, just because you've beaten decks that use broken cards doesn't make them less broken. I've beaten plenty of **Ibuki**, Hugo, and decks using CSS, Happy Holidays, etc.

ANYTHING can be defeated in this game (thankfully). Doesn't make them less broken.

Yeah, but your examples of Ibuki and F&G Hugo aren't really accurate when comparing to BRT.

You can play around BRT.

It didn't hurt me once at ECC.

I do however agree with the blocking prob. IMO, blocks shouldn't be able to be hacked. They should add that to the rules or whatever where the control check to block cannot be lowered. I don't think that would hurt the game in any way.

Shaneth said:

Are ya sure?

The next thing you say directly after my quoted portion is "you can play around BRT." So...my winning against Hugo's "I give you a 3 handsize" and Ibuki's "you can't touch my staging area" WASN'T "playing around" their strategy?

Uh...right...you think that.

Yes, as soon as a BRT enters a staging area, plays are no longer brainless, and require some prediction, but it's simply an unnecessary, overpowered, costless card to have in an environment where properly-costed cards are trying to shine.

Cool. You, and many others, have won games while staring down a daunting backfield of BRTs. But as I've always said, and will always say (and thankfully, July's SOTG had FFG completely backing me up ), that just because you can beat a broken card/deck running said broken card doesn't make the card any less broken.

MarcoPulleaux said:

I mean't that you could play around BRT, but can't play around F&G Hugo. Hugo gave you 3HS, which you couldn't do much about. BRT you draw new cards and can bait it out, therefore you can play around it.

I do however agree tho that cards like Destiny and Ayame's Scarf don't solve BRT.

"One card does not stop another card from being great."

^^Every player should know and play by that statement.

Shaneth said:

Shane wins the thread.

BRT still doesn't need to be banned.

brt is fine for the most part and it for sure doesn't need to be banned

You can deal with it with cards that you should run in a deck that can run them anyways like Program malfunction or Inhuman perception or even the recently rereleased martial arts champion

I've been trying to say this quite a bit. BRT may not need to be banned but it should be UNIQUE .

KawaiiMistress said:

I doubt that would happen more than likely it will be left the same and just allowed to rotate out

KawaiiMistress said:

Usually when people say that, they're talking about cards that ought to be banned

Olcadan's and Bitter were often commented on needing the Unique keyword

and uh...

Hey I'd be even happier if it got banned. I'm just saying its more acceptable if the card itself was unique.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Ok, let me rephrase since you're too dense to understand what I meant there. Or continuing to pull an incredibly long and incredibly irritating troll, which I feel like indulging once again, since I'm really quite bored.

On many, many occasions I have beat decks which got several copies of BRT on their board quickly, without them bothering me in any significant way and without them hindering my deck more significantly than a number of "balanced" cards . Experienced Combatant bothers me much more than BRT does.

And again. "Make it unable to hack blocks"? I guess KFT needs banning too for doing the same thing as BRT only better, then. I'm surprised you guys aren't lobbing to ban KFT, there are less answers to its Enhance than there are to BRT's response, you don't get to see it coming beforehand, and it will always make your block 5+ harder. BAN KFT

(edit #6: I give up, this board's quote system is nearly impossible to work with...)

@ Tag/ExCombat - AS WELL IT SHOULD

Awesome card is awesome.

/order player

How is Kung Fu Training and BRT even in the same league?! Kung Fu Training is a speed boost which you have to play and pass from your hand AND toss a card for. That's tossing 2 cards and passing a check (oh yea if your opponent has BRT out, try passing that check) to have the same effect as BRT gaining a card. Use your brain.

I'm happy for you hard core tournament players who all have 4+ sets of BRTs that you traded everything for. Stop being selfish and think about the new players that are coming into this game. Sure I'm more experienced now and I can deal with BRT...the new players who see this card get so discouraged that they stop trying to play knowing they stand no chance.

Hell I'd rather prefer to be on the receiving end of Yoga Mastery than this bull crap.

I've lost faith in the UFS community and I can see why so many people are quitting.

I'm willing to bet that if this card does get banned, people will be extremely happy.

KawaiiMistress said:

1. The thing people ***** about the most with BRT is nuking blocks. It gives ON AVERAGE -4 or -5 to a check. KFT gives, generally, +5 speed. Also, if your opponent is BRTing your KFT, one of you totally screwed the pooch on that play. And if it's the game-ending block, who cares if you're pitching a card... it's still a guaranteed +5 or +6 speed versus playing the ODDS of hitting a -5 to their check. If it's -3 or -2 to the check, there's a 1/5 foundation that does THAT better, too.

2. I haven't owned BRTs in like six months.

3. Yoga Mastery was an amazing card. I miss it tremendously.

4. Ditto but for vastly different reasons.

5. Sure, people would also be happy if every bloody card they've ever lost a game to or had to outplay got banned, doesn't mean BRT deserves it.