Still new and trying to figure out all the subtle timing issues.

You've killed the wrong dwarf - can you play it in response to a challenge after the attcker has knelt his characters to attack -or- do you have to tap them before the attackers are decalred and knelt? What is the order that challenges are declared? I kneel my attackers and declare a target or declare a target then kneel attackers?

Titan's Bastard - An opponent put him in to play after Valar saying one of his things had been put in the dead pile, which would allow the bastard to come into play. However everyone else at the table had things hit the dead pile as well returning the bastard to his hand. How does this situation play?

jugglingfool said:

Well first, you cannot play "You've Killed the Wrong Dwarf" in response to anything because it is an "Any Phase" action. (I'm saying this partially to be a schmuck, but also because a "Response" has a distinct meaning in the game and timing that is slightly different from standard actions like "Any Phase," "Marshaling" or "Challenges.")

Okay, the specific timing questions seems to be "when are players allowed to trigger effects during a challenge"? Well, the basic "anatomy" of a challenge is:

(- Players take turns triggering actions)

1. Active Player declares type of challenge and declares attackers.

- Then players take turns triggering actions.

2. Active Player assigns stealth and Defending Player declares defenders.

- Then players take turns triggering actions

3. The challenge is resolved

(Then players take turns triggering actions before the next challenge is declared).

So what this tells you, really, is that choosing an opponent to attack, declaring the type of challenge and kneeling the attackers are all steps in the single process of "initiating a challenge." No player can do anything between the various steps. You either have to anticipate the process and trigger your effects before it starts, or wait until the process is over before triggering them. The timing doesn't allow you to wait to see who is attacked or with what type of challenge, then sneak in and kneel a potential attacker. You have to anticipate it.

Also, kneeling a character after it is declared does not "undo" the declaration. You need an effect that specifically removes a character from the challenge once it has been legally declared. The same is true for icons (sooner or later, everyone tries to remove the military icon from a character that has already been declared as an attacker or defender in a military challenge and say they aren't part of the challenge, or at least doesn't count its STR anymore; it doesn't work like that).

jugglingfool said:

Well, that all depends on how the controller of The Titan's Bastard wants it to play. Both the "put into play" and "return to hand" effects are Responses. Triggered effects. They only happen if the controller of the card decides to use/activate the effects. So sure, everyone else had things that hit the dead pile and the controller of the Bastard could take advantage of the opportunity to return him to hand again. If he wants. The Response is not automatic - he'd have to choose to do it.

I was totally reading the Titan's bastard wrong. I thought you had to initiate the response regardless. If it is a choice it is much better than I thought at first.

You never have to do anything that starts with a bold timing word.