Moribund, Moribund, Moribund

By eloooooooi, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

Hey guys, I have a new doubt. Let's say I have a character with a Response like this:

"Response: after this character dies, put a character into play from your hand or from your discard pile."

And I have the Retreat event which says:

"Response: After one of your unique characters is killed, return that character to your hand instead of placing it in your dead pile."

So, assuming I'm the first player, can I play Retreat after my character dies (he has to go to my hand instead of the dead pile), then use his Response (since he's still Moribund) and put him into play again?

I think he's still Moribund and fisically on the board, although he is supposed to be in my hand. Am I missing something?

From the FAQ:

A Moribund card (and its attachments) is considered to have been killed, discarded, returned to its owner's deck or hand, but only for the purposes of triggering responses and passive abilities. This includes responses and passive abilities triggered by a card being placed in the appropriate out-of-play area. A Moribund card is, for all other purposes, still considered in play.

eloooooooi said:

So, assuming I'm the first player, can I play Retreat after my character dies (he has to go to my hand instead of the dead pile), then use his Response (since he's still Moribund) and put him into play again?

I think he's still Moribund and fisically on the board, although he is supposed to be in my hand. Am I missing something?

It's actually a lot like the Core Set Benjen Stark. His "after he dies, shuffle everyone's dead pile back into their deck" ability will never shuffle himself back into your deck because he will never be physically in the dead pile when his Response is triggered. Same thing with your hypothetical character. Even with Retreat (which simply changes the card from a "moribund:headed to dead pile" to a "moribund:headed to hand" status), your hypothetical character would never be in your hand when you could trigger its own Response. (And BTW: You can't trigger that character's Response from your hand, anyway, since it doesn't say you can. So even if Retreat did immediately and physically put the character into your hand, which it doesn't, you'd lose the opportunity to trigger the character's own Response since it isn't in play anymore.)

So you're not really missing anything. Any card that starts in play and is removed from play for any reason goes through a moribund state where it remains on the table for the purpose of triggering Responses. Moribund cards count as being killed, discarded, placed in their out-of-play areas, removed from play, etc. for the purpose of checking the play restrictions on Responses, but are considered to still be in play and on the table for the purpose of resolving the Responses - with the exception that a moribund card cannot be removed from play by a card effect a second time. (Note that because Retreat uses the "instead" terminology, it is not removing a card from play on its own; it is a replacement effect that modifies an existing moribund state.)

Perfectly explained. Thanks ktom :)