So fx. Flamer 30m range and ends up in a 30 degree cone. Any one got a version I can print out and cut out and use on the table? I find that its hard to use flame weapons so atm we are using the Flame cone from the Game Workeshop Warhammer game.

Well I dont have one but I can give you the dimmensions to create one.

The wide part of the template is 16m. The angled sides are 31.05m long giving the thing a total length of 30m even with the 30degree angle from the point of origin. Hopefully that makes sense >.> but i dont have the right programs to make a template or I would, MS Paint doesn't do angles ;D You could do one by hand from this info.

If I'm not mistaken, the template package from Games Workshop Warhammer tabletop games is exactly what you need. (I know, I hate feeding the troll under the bridge more money, but it is the same size)

You can find the templates here:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1030023&prodId=prod1095488

Other than that, there's a little rule of thumb you can use: Enemies standing at the same distance from you can be hit if they stand at most half the distance away from each other. So you can hit two enemies 10 metres away from each other if they stand 20 metres away from you.

I still think 30 degrees is a crazy arc for a 30m range. It must be a pretty impressive flamethrower to cover a 16m wide cone. I guess you can justify it by saying the shooter waves the weapon around a bit.

gotta love Trig...

Cardinalsin said:

Yeah I think thats what they want you to imply, I personally don't use the 30 degree arc, it's by far to dangerous and I don't personally think it makes for a balanced weapon. I use a modded system.

10m rng: 3m wide at end.

20m rng: 4m wide at end.

30m rng: 5m wide at end.

I've found this works out better in most cases because you don't end up covering the battlemap with the flame template. If you want to wave it around and cover more area, fine but I would make up alternate rules and give the victums an easier test to avoid the damage since your spending less time on each target.

Cardinalsin said:

You don't need to wave around a flamethrower that much. If you drench a particular spot with burning fuel, then the fire on that spot will increase in area, making your line of fire sort of cone shaped.

The thing I find most wierd about flamers in Dark Heresy is how implausibly easy it is to avoid getting hit by a flamer. I mean a +20 Ag test to avoid it all together? Have any of you really seen a real flamethrower in action? (and then im talking about the military kind that fires a gout of burning liquid fuel, and not those hollywood version that use flamable gas).

Sure if you can stay out of a flamethrowers effective range, then it would be pretty easy to dodge. But if you are within range, then a flamethrower is even more userfriendly than a conventional firearm or even a shotgun for that matter. Normal weapons have to have their iron sights lined up properly if you want to hit anything, a flamethrower can just be aimed at the general direction of your target, because the flood of burning liquid fuel that it vomits out will envelop pretty much anything at rapid speed.

For comparisons sake, would you be more likely to dodge being hit by the water jet of a firehydrant than you would dodge a bullet from a gun? I doubt it...

//Varnias Tybalt - hobby pyromaniac

Varnias Tybalt said:

I thought it was only +20 if the person firing the flamer wasn't proficient with it? Maybe I'm thinking of something else...

Emprah_Horus said:

Yeah its you get a +20/+30 (pistol and basic/heavy) to the test if you aren't proficient with flame weapons... otherwise it's just a normal agility check or you get hit by the attack and then have to make another agility test or get caught on fire.

I think Varnias Tybalt just got confused, especially with the errata. Page 128 flame quality, says it quite clearly that its just an agility check, no bonus or minus. Errata 3.0 page 8 the flame quality blurb their just redifines and clarifies what happens if you are not proficent with the weapon and shows how it differs from normal weapons.

Flame weapons are extremely deadly in Dark Heresy since most people have less then a 40% chance to avoid the high damage of hte weapon and then less then a 40% chance to avoid catching fire, and being on fire in DH is extremely scary. I've had players who have had to burn 2 fate points before they could finally be put out.

Yes, flame weapons are the bane of my techpriest. The only thing that has saved him in the past was rolling low damage each round on the fire damage rolls. He's been on fire so many times that he designed a servitor skull with the purpose of putting out fires ((basically a one use fire extinguisher)).

karn987 said:

You are correct. But still my main gripe is the fact that you don't have to use a normal Dodge roll, but can just use your agility roll instead. The Dodge skill is there for a reason, and it should be a dodge that save you from being hit by flame weapons as well as normal weapons.

As my example tried to illustrate. You are not more likely to be able to dodge the jet stream of a fire hydrant (and believe me, a military flamethrower do fire a jet stream of burning fuel) than you are able to dodge a bullet fired from a gun, you would be just as easily hit by both. Hence why you should be required to do a Dodge test to avoid a flamer just like you do against a bolter or SP weapon, not just a simple agility test...

Varnias Tybalt said:

Well, sort of, yes, and indeed I'm not arguing with the idea of a cone template. But 16m wide at the end? Really? I'm no hobby pyromaniac, but I doubt the burning fuel spreads that much without some serious lateral hosing action.

Incidentally, I had a quick search on youtube and found this video:

Varnias Tybalt said:

Ahh so your real gripe is the difference between an agility test and a dodge test. If you are not trained in dodge then the agil test is more likely to succeed and if you are trained in dodge you are more likely to succeed at the dodge. But even then, the chance of actually dodge is less then 40% and a jet of water moves slower then a bullet and is easier to dodge hense the agil test. If you dont like it then just make it a dodge instead *shrugs* but any chance less then 50% isn't big at all and you are more likely to fail then pass it so I still don't see what your getting at.

Cardinalsin said:

There are many factors that will affect the area of course. Such as the type of fuel used (slow-burning, fast-burning), the condition of the ground (if it is ashpalt that won't absorb much of the fuel, or if it is wet dirt that might absorb the fuel) etc.

But most military flamethrowers fire some form of burning napalm or similar fuel. Preferably a slow burning sort that actually burns for a while in order to set the target on fire (napalm is rather sticky, so once it sticks you'd want it to do as much damage as possible, hence longer burn time).

But napalm is still a liquid and will behave like a liquid until it evaporates completely. Let's say that you have a squirt gun filled with water, and you fire a few shots on one particular area. The puddle of water formed will grow the more you squirt at it, creating a larger and larger radius. Now if you replaced the water with burning fuel, the fire would grow bigger as long as you keep adding more burning fuel to roughly the same spot. Of course you can't really compare a flame thrower with a squirt gun, but you get the idea.

I can't really say what type of fuel the guy in the video used, but im guessing it isn't military fuel (there is no standard to it, since armies throughout the world use a variety of fuels) since it burned very rapidly (it looked almost gaseuous, but that might be due to the nozzle used, dividing the fuel into very small particles that evaporate quickly). Understandable of course since it was an exhibition or something and using the real stuff would lend an unecessary element of danger.

Also the guy in the video aimed slightly upwards, probably making sure that the fuel burned up completely before hitting the ground, making sure not to form a burning puddle like the one I mentioned.

In any case, my main point is that fire's tend to spread outwards, and if you add more fuel very rapidly (like flamethrowers do) you can have yourself a decent bonfire quite a few meters away, without having to wave the flame thrower around that much.