At our Regionals today... every single deck was pure aggro. Some matchups weren't even taking 15 minutes. It was impressive. I think there's some testicular fortitude out there.

Man... those just seem so clunky. If we're using Cobra Blow, with just Lynx Tail and her own E, Hilde makes a 16L22... :

It occured to me yesterday that Guy**, if he hits Transference + Evil Plans T1 and can push the attacks through, can play Reverse Flayer -> Pommel Smash and do a total of 31 damage >_>. [for anyone who isn't following, Transference and Evil Plans give damage pumps at the same time as Reverse Flayer (as soon as the attack is played) so you can choose to resolve them first and have Pommel Smash start off at 13 damage before Reverse Flayer doubles it]. And you could even use Buddhist Devotion to drop them into play directly on turn 2... I think Buddhist Devotion is one of my favorite cards right now, haha

Antigoth said:

I trust you aren't complaining good sir?

Cascade said:

Not at all... everyone had a good time. I was just passing on some emperical evidence that the times, they are a changing.

Tag is right.

At the ECC, there were no aggro decks in top 8. You can see top 8 in my report. And btw, Hilde isn't aggro.

Top 4 was two mill decks and two one-shot decks.

A mill deck won, playing NO attacks.

Protoaddict said:

Stop naming good cards; only Kirk Polka plays with them

Shaneth said:

How is a deck that kills 2nd turn by flinging attacks not aggro?

Antigoth said:

There's a difference between aggro and a quick win.

Hilde one-shots, which isn't aggro. Winning by playing 1 attack on the 2nd turn isn't aggro.

Antigoth said:

*sigh*

And yet again we re-enter the realm of CCG terminology

Aggro. In UFS, it's been popularized as a beatface, brainless symbol of build turn 1, and smash face any subsequent turns.

Now, here's where specifics come into play. As I've repeatedly said, from what I've grown up with, aggro has always been characterized by long strings of attacks, generally being bolstered by damage pumps. Such characters as ***Adon***, **Twelve**, *Xianghua*, and Combination of Blows **Ken** are all characters who relied on playing strings of attacks, and giving pumps to those strings.

Hilde doesn't play a flurry of attacks (not from what I've ever seen). Hilde's all about playing one to two attacks, and just boosting the Hell out of that one attack.

Although the CONCEPT of build 1, kill 2 SOUNDS aggro, at least from what I've come to know as aggro, aggro isn't about building and then boosting one attack to all hell, it's about throwing several attacks, and maybe pumping them along the way.

Yeah, aggro is about tossing multiple attacks at your opponent very early so they either have no blocks or run out of blocks quick, therefore forcing through damage leading to the win.

Hilde is one-shot. You can compare that to like.... Turn 7 Tiger Fury to Turn 2 Lynx Tail.

Shinji is....right? OMG LOL.

Joking aside, as the player of a Hilde, it's not aggro. Unlike other strong decks though, it actually attempts to win by reducing the opponent's life down to 0, which at this point, is good enough for me.

We are still killing turn 1 and 2 in New Zealsnd. But we have been since the original SNK, at no point with any release did this change. It is all about how you want to play and the desire to push the limits. We currently have a Zi Mei and a Donovan which both kill turn 2 very consistently - as in 9 out of 10 games. Only shocking hands prevent this. We also have an Ibuki which is a turn 1 killer if it picks up 2 or 3 Attacks.

I think the American meta is just a slow one. I do not want to cause offense, but you guys seem to look at cards and try think of ways to slow the game by using them. Promo Yun Seong was an example. In the US from what I read it got predominantly used as a Mill or Control character due to his readying. Here I ran a deck which made Top 4 at our Nationals only losing to the winning deck (which made Top16 at Worlds) due to not drawing an Attack for 36 cards in the 3rd game. This deck killed turn 1 about 80% of the time. The deck which beat me was an Life deck with Evil splash (Demon Eyes and Infiltrating) which killed turn 1 or 2.

Above is just an example, I think it is all about how you want to play. If there was a genuine desire to acclerate the game and play aggressively you guys would, but I think you find that slow decks are more consistent and you want to win. Which is fair enough. I just do not think there is too much preventing quick, aggressive decks if you want to play them.

Duckman brings some good points. All metas vary.

Whenever I think of New Zealand, I think of To The Bone Hanzo.
Whenever I think of United Kingdom, I think of Tycho control.

I wish we could step over the pond and play with our foreign neighbors more easily.

Amazing. Our shop, in Arizona has plenty of aggro players. Someone plays an Ivy and attacks turn two, and will be 4 or 5 attacks deep in the card pool. It's, at least, doube that if he has a Switching Weapon Styles active. I have a Yuri that, by the end of turn two, can leave most people at single digits and a Felicia that, in our tournament this past Saturday, sent out two Charlie's Fierce Punches, used Felicia's form, two Swooper Kicks and a Spinning Beat/Feline Spike by turn two or three. Another player has a Donovan with Lunar Slashes into Boomerang Raids by turn 3 to the point where you can almost set a clock to it.

Most of us at our shop have been playing this way since the game started. I see all these stories and reports about gray decks winning major tournaments and I begin to wonder if the reason why we don't have an issue with enough aggro is that we're just playing to enjoy the game. If we lose, we lose. If we win, even better. Sometimes, people just block really well. I do it often. Sometimes, we just check poorly. Once again, I do it often. We all do. It's the nature of the game.

Mainly, my long-winded point is: If you have a problem with lack of aggro in the current state of the game, maybe you should look harder at the pure offensive capabilites in this format and the number of attacks you run. I run 20-25 attacks in a deck. Most of us do. Yes, you will check them a lot, but you will also draw them a lot as well.

Doh. Accidental crap quoting/edits ftl.

Protoaddict said:

This is the most horribly unbalanced thing I've ever seen in my life. It's WORSE than Clones. I won't say it's quite as rough as Chain Throw, but still. WAY too easy to abuse.

Ira-Spinta -> this card. See TWOP, Glare, Sogetsu support, etc - cards that do NOT discard at random. Also doesn't stop tapdown on the opponent's turn (see Experienced Combatant, Akuma -> A New Low, etc).

Never design cards. Ever.

You know...

Challenge the Master should be brought back.

Problem. SOLVED.

'course, it creates a whole NEW problem, but still. You want aggro back? That'll friggin' do it.

(I'm semiserious - made this comment today at cards)

MegaGeese said:

It's funny you mention that. A friend of mine and I were just talking about the very same thing this afternoon.

There's a bunch of cards I can think of that would boost aggro significantly... for example, I'd love to see a new Flowing Gale Hook.

Doc - great minds think alike.

Tag - Yeah. I want to see a new Ukyo's Short Slash Attack, or the old awesome spammy or good crap like Turning Kali Strikes, Cutlass Serendipity, etc.

I'd kill to have Unrequited Love back =(

I'm gonna get so much crap for this, but I'd like to see Kunai 2.0. same exact stats, but mess with the symbols a bit - any two of Chaos/Earth/Void, plus Life. Because Life needs a bone, seriously.

Tagrineth said:

A new Batobi Punch to go with it wouldn't hurt either.

Tagrineth said:

While this statement is true, I honestly don't see this as a bad thing. A deck that wins on turn 2 will by necessity have almost no interaction with the opponent, and will almost certainly be no fun for them. When I started playing, there were multiple people who played Mai. Their games would go like this:

Turn 1: Shinobi Tradition, Ibis Minuet

Turn 2: Random Card, Agohani Geri infinite times, win.

If that was the entirety of my initial exposure to the game, I probably wouldn't have gotten into it.

On the other hand, it is certainly possible to put together a good aggro deck with the cards currently available. At the most recent meeting of my playgroup, I was in a game where I was playing Elena, and my opponent was using Astrid. I ended up winning on my third turn in a game where my opponent went first and I mulliganed away a 4 attack opening hand, and my opponent would have won on his third turn if he would have checked a 5 instead of a 4 at one point. The point being that both of us had strong aggro decks that could win quickly, and that such things are possible with multiple characters.

MegaGeese said:

Chubbs and I SO agree.

Kunai for the win!!!

I would just like to see strike heads or glass slippers come back .