Hi,

We have a Powersword version of the rapier (Serpentine) but what would the stats be like for a normal rapier.
Mind you I mean a rapier not an epee or simular needle.

My guess would something like this...

Rapier
Class: Melee Primitive
Damage: 1d5+2 or 1d10-1 R
Pen: 1
Special: Primitive, Fast
Weight: 1kg
Price: 25 Thrones

Santiago said:

I would go with 1d10-1 R dmg with pen: 0 because it's less damaging then say a normal sword (long sword) and I see no reason why it would have pen 1.

Also I agree with Primitive and Fast, but I would also say Balanced becuase it's a good parrying weapon to.

I don't really see the need to have seperate stat for that weapon, as I think "sword" is designed to be an abstract representation of longswords, sabers, viking swords, katanas, Shamshirs, Falcheons, and the tons of other kinds of swords.

But if I must I would also give it Fast quality, Balanced and primitve (without mono). and maybe -1 damage.

Friend of the Dork said:

Well there is a need if you want any realism between the different weapon types. A Katana is a far cry from a saber and a far cry from a rapier and all of these are different then the long sword (The base sword used for the sword entry).

The -1dmg seems right but improvised weapons do 1d10-1dmg and I figured... hey this is a (atleast steel) sword... it should do more then the beer bottle.

karn987 said:

Improvised to d10-2. But I doubt that would include a beer bottle. Look at the description in the book, it covers essentially club-like weapons. After all, a knife would do more than a beer-bottle too, and that only does d5 R.

That should, of course, read improvised DO d10-2.

Whoops, saw the - from the entry and the 1 from the entry above it. Heh

In that case, I like 1d10-1 *thumbs up*

karn987 said:

Little realism in this game as it is. All autoguns are created equal, all pistols, crossbows have the same damage as self-bows, knives have almost no damage etc.

Historically, a sword was a sword and the difference comes from who made it and where it came from, nothing was mass-pdocued so there was no set and easy categories or naming conventions. All these are bladed weapons meant to hack, slice and/or stab with, of various lenghts and shape.

Just like autoguns are rifled weapons able to fire autofire. In many RPGs I've played there are different stats for each model. It all depends on the level of detail you want.

Friend of the Dork said:

Well Im gonna knock ya on this man because of the way DH does damage. The system it's self lends to creating generic weapon damage and stats because you can't go very far from that and really have the same type of gun. Also have you even looked in the IQ Handbook? That's full of tons of weapon varieties of each and every kind and there are always more rolling out through peoples ideas and the support books. They give generic stats to make things easier on the GM's who have a massive load of information to deal with already, I know because I am a GM. I like the generic weapon stats for mechanics and I can add whatever flavor I want to them. If I want a super special rifle for the guy, I hit the IQ Handbook and pull one out of there. Or pull a weapon from current day, gotta figure a Autogun is close to the M16 or the The Barrett M468 Assault Rifle. Either way, the system was built for the GM to do what they want with it and made it rather easy to add your own touch to anything. Personally, I think this is much better then something like d20 modern and future who give you a whole book of weapons with 90% of them being the EXACT same stats because guess what? Most guns of the same category are not different enough to have different stats, especially for damage. They are going to vary in burst and full auto size as well as clip capacity and weight, but the bullet caliber is mostly the same for main stream weapons

To say this game has little realism is to honestly be a closed minded elitest. The game is actually pretty realistic, I haven't seen a critcal chart in a lot of mainstream games and the percent system is probably one of the best stat systems out there. What would you consider a realistic game then, even a medium grade one since apparently your standards are so high?

How about just taking the stats for a Saber and giving it the Fast trait? After all, Sabers are fairly close (well, the closest of all the melee weapons stated) to a rapier. Then again, the more I think about it, the more a 1d10-1 makes sense as opposed to 1d10 since the Saber has a longer cutting edge and is used to chopping more then quickly stab or slash with it's end. Actually giving it a Pen of 1 would help to show it's rather piercing nature and highly controlled nature able to be more easily guided into openings and faults in the armour.

So I would go with what you originally had but with Balanced added in:

Rapier
1d10-1 R, Pen 1, Primitive Fast Balanced

@Karn, relax a little. Dork was just stating a point -no reason for you to get indignant. DH really isn't all that realistic (come on, the crit tables, the Critical Existence Failure, chainsaws of Happy Funtime Slaughter, etc). DH not being realistic and true to the real world is not a bad thing nor is it a good thing, it's just a thing. Any system being realistic or unrealistic is not in any way related to how good or fun said system is. If it's playable, is true to the games theme and setting, and is internally constant then, chances are, it's a good system. Whether it's fun or not is a whole different bag and more dependent on personal opinion then anything else. DH is a good system for what it dose and the fact that it isn't supper realistic helps. After all, 40k's reality has very little to do with our own, or physics, or anything else that isn't blatantly cool in a splatter-punk way. DH dose a pretty good job of modeling the reality of 40k (except, some would argue in the area of Plasma Weapons and Meltas) while keeping it's self easily accessible to a wide player base. In doing such, it is a decent system but not too realistic in relation to the really for-real real world. Because of this fact, people very well will mention such about the system again and when they do, they won't be disparaging your religious views, assaulting your ethnic or cultural roots, or saying your mother is so fat that when she sits around the house, she really sits around the house (or what ever kids are saying about each others mothers these days). In summery, relax, it's all good.

Any one of you owning the old Arsenal 2060 from Shadowrun? nearly 30 different assaultguns, every one described, most with pictures, ... but in the end they all did (more or less) the same damage due to same ammo. they differt in weight, price, clip-size, and extras.

If you want to make a weapon more special you have to work with the other stats, like weight, range, ROF, ... and of course the traits (accurate, ...).

karn987 said:

Oh I'm not gonna open that can of worms... even the game designers admit the game is not realistic or about realism, this is science-fiction gothic fantasy and about as realistic as a Death Star.

The rules were designed for simplicity, speed and ease of use, and to be exiting rather than tedious. I'm not sure why you think me close minded or elitist, I've played and enjoyed games from D&D (1st ed) to Rolemaster and i don't scoff off a system based on realism alone. Why do you think I play these games

For a more realistic game, try Shadowrun or even Rolemaster, although the latter is overly complex and time consuming. Shadowrun has individual weapon stats per model, allows full auto fire with a simple action (which is actually 1.5 seconds!), has attributes of 1-6 for unaugmented humans, skills for each weapon group instead of the same skill for using a sling or using a heavy bolt gun... etc.

Twilight 2000 is also interesting as it only uses RL weapons and every weapon has a picture and stats, from AK74s to M1A2 Abrams main battle tanks. If not for the twonky hit location system and base low damage (3-4d6 against 40-60 hit points for the Body location), the system is quite good. Guns have different ranges, different recoil, different bulk (modifies initative, pistols faster than machineguns etc), ammo capacity and type etc.

However I don't want a modern warfare battle simulator where artillery auto-kills the team, I want my unrealstic Dark Heresy where the "heroes" fires their autopistol in one hand while chopping the enemy with a chainsword in the other

PS: Graver in my game I use Sword stats for Sabers as I figure they are one of the kind of swords represented in the DH rulebook. If not you might as well have different stats for arming swords, viking swords, longswords, tapered swords, side swords, gladius, short swords, scimitars, falchions, xiphos.-- I could go on. Since DH focuses on acolytes wth more or less modern or science-fantasy weapons with a scattering of primitive ones, I find it best not to specify too much.

Sabers are heavy enough to do as much damage as other swords, and are quite effective for parrying as well. Heck, in RL you could parry with a two-handed sword.