I'm sorry, what were we talking about?

I played with proxies

Vader + Predator, Title, ATC

Maarek Stele + Predator, Title, ATC

Vessery with VI

It's very good and a brute force approach. Most of the time you make 2-3 damage. VI on Vessery to strip the shields for Maarek.

I really like calculation on Maarek though.

Vader, Backstabber, Howlrunner + tie swarm = classic killers.

I've been having a lot of fun with this:

Yeah, that's why I said 8 first. 9 is not usually seen in this game, so 8 makes the most sense, but I think you could make an argument for 9 on her and not be treated as crazy.

No, you couldn't. Ace pilots are Pilot Skill 7. Pilot Skill 8 is a step up from that.

Pilot Skill 9 has four pilots.

Han Solo, Darth Vader, Soontir Fel and Wedge Antilles.

Luke Skywalker himself doesn't make the cut. PS9 exists to not be fleshed out.

Yeah, if Tycho Celchu is an 8, I'm not sure there is an argument to be made for Juno Eclipse being a 9.

I used to run a list with Vader and Backstabber as flankers and Dark Curse w/ 3 Academy Pilots as the main force. If I make the same list with the new title for Adv Targeting Computer, I end up with only 2 pts for Vader's EPT.

Darth Vader w/ title and Adv. Targeting Computer

Backstabber

Dark Curse

3 x Academy Pilots

Dark Curse leads the chump swarm. It helps their longevity as people always forget. I try to get it with just Dark Curse in range at the start of shooting while Backstabber and Vader sneak around.

For a 2 pt EPT, there are a number of options. VI would ensure Vader goes last. Determination is also good. Lone Wolf could be used, but not sure how much use it would be. Calculation could be good, but might not be needed with the critical hit already added by the ATC. Anything that adds stress is not good. There are a few options that would give other people in the squad benefits, but I'm not sure Vader would want to do that. Not sure if they are the best use.

I'm waiting for a pilot to have an anti-Keyan ability. He gets to spend stress as a focus when attacking and I'd like to see a pilot be able to spend a stress as a focus token when defending. That would be a very powerful ability on a 3 agility Tie Advanced.

Yeah, but I thought that had more to do with Tycho being in an A-wing, which was not his primary ship. She will be a high ps ship for sure, but yeah I'd say 8 is more likely, since Maarek is a 7 and they tend to diversify ps a bit.

The idea I've toyed with once I get my Raider:

Turtley Enough For the Turtle Club

Carnor Jax:

Royal Guard TIE

Push the Limit

Autothrusters

Stealth Device

Tempest Squadron Pilot:

TIE/x1

Sensor Jammer

Tempest Squadron Pilot:

TIE/x1

Sensor Jammer

Storm Squadron Pilot:

TIE/x1

Sensor Jammer

Could also switch out Jax's SD for a Targeting Computer for more pewpewpew capability from him, and then I could trade a Tempest for a second Storm.

Use PTL to keep Jax up close and out of arcs, Sensor Jammers guarantee anyone Jax is huddled up next to will have at least one miss. Take Evade actions to guarantee further hilarity. Probably wouldn't kill much very quickly, however. Still, strikes me as an amusing list... especially against TIE swarms if Jax can flop into range one outside their arcs.

I'm waiting for a pilot to have an anti-Keyan ability. He gets to spend stress as a focus when attacking and I'd like to see a pilot be able to spend a stress as a focus token when defending. That would be a very powerful ability on a 3 agility Tie Advanced.

That would be a super cool pilot ability for Juno. I'd definitely love to fly her with that. With accuracy corrector giving 2 guaranteed hits, or ATC giving the extra crit, she'd be able to dish out consistent damage and have a high chance of turtling up to avoid attacks.

I'm waiting for a pilot to have an anti-Keyan ability. He gets to spend stress as a focus when attacking and I'd like to see a pilot be able to spend a stress as a focus token when defending. That would be a very powerful ability on a 3 agility Tie Advanced.

That would be a super cool pilot ability for Juno. I'd definitely love to fly her with that. With accuracy corrector giving 2 guaranteed hits, or ATC giving the extra crit, she'd be able to dish out consistent damage and have a high chance of turtling up to avoid attacks.

I think in practice this ability would be way inferior to Keyan.

The idea I've toyed with once I get my Raider:

Turtley Enough For the Turtle Club

Carnor Jax:

Royal Guard TIE

Push the Limit

Autothrusters

Stealth Device

Tempest Squadron Pilot:

TIE/x1

Sensor Jammer

Tempest Squadron Pilot:

TIE/x1

Sensor Jammer

Storm Squadron Pilot:

TIE/x1

Sensor Jammer

Could also switch out Jax's SD for a Targeting Computer for more pewpewpew capability from him, and then I could trade a Tempest for a second Storm.

Use PTL to keep Jax up close and out of arcs, Sensor Jammers guarantee anyone Jax is huddled up next to will have at least one miss. Take Evade actions to guarantee further hilarity. Probably wouldn't kill much very quickly, however. Still, strikes me as an amusing list... especially against TIE swarms if Jax can flop into range one outside their arcs.

The problem with this list that I see is that it doesn't address the issue of Tie Advanced not having enough firepower.

Here's something I've been thinking about.

Darth Vader:

x1

Predator

Engine Upgrade

Adv. TC

Soontir Fel:

Royal Guard

Push the Limit

Autothrusters

Stealth Device

Omicron Group Pilot:

Enhanced Scopes

Anti-Pursuit Lasers

Mara Jade

Vader and Fel do their thing as per usual, and the shuttle hopefully gets a few shots in and then proceeds to standing in the middle of the fight, dealing out stress and hopefully getting shots in on ships that fly into it. Seems neat, will have to try it out. What does everyone else think?

EDIT: Mainly I just REEEEEALLY want both Vader and Fel in a squadron, which does't leave room for much else. A single Tempest Squadron could work, but feels a bit... small.

I'm waiting for a pilot to have an anti-Keyan ability. He gets to spend stress as a focus when attacking and I'd like to see a pilot be able to spend a stress as a focus token when defending. That would be a very powerful ability on a 3 agility Tie Advanced.

That would be a super cool pilot ability for Juno. I'd definitely love to fly her with that. With accuracy corrector giving 2 guaranteed hits, or ATC giving the extra crit, she'd be able to dish out consistent damage and have a high chance of turtling up to avoid attacks.

I think in practice this ability would be way inferior to Keyan.

It would be interesting to see a mathematical model for that. I mean, on the face of it, I think you may be wrong, simply because the attack and defense dice share the same percent chance of rolling a focus - 25%. But the attack and defense dice do not share the same percent chance of rolling a "success" which is either a hit or an evade. The chances of rolling a hit are 50%, but the chances of rolling an evade are close to 35%. So, if you have an ability that lets you spend stress to flip a focus to an evade, you are freeing up the option of choosing to take an evade token to flip your blanks if you're turtling up, which is much more beneficial on the defensive side than trusting to that 35% chance on the dice. Also, you can focus, and spend your focus on your attack, and then still essentially have a focus to spend on defense, which boosts your chance to evade as well.

So, I guess, in a case where you have Keyan's ability, you have a 50% chance to roll hits, so average 2 hits on a four dice attack. You have a 25% chance to roll a focus, so one focus on average. Keyan's ability would allow you to spend your stress to flip the focus for three hits, so you're adding one hit effectively. Contrast that with the ability to do the same thing on defense. Say you roll 4 evasion dice against a range 3 attack. On average, you'll get something over 1 evade, 1 focus, and then something over 1 blank. So, a roll of evade, evade, focus, blank, and a roll of blank, blank, focus, evade are equally likely. This means that the ability to spend that focus that you have really matters a lot, and being able to spend a stress token to do that would free up the ability to spend that focus on attack, or to take an evade action instead of a focus action.

I'm waiting for a pilot to have an anti-Keyan ability. He gets to spend stress as a focus when attacking and I'd like to see a pilot be able to spend a stress as a focus token when defending. That would be a very powerful ability on a 3 agility Tie Advanced.

That would be a super cool pilot ability for Juno. I'd definitely love to fly her with that. With accuracy corrector giving 2 guaranteed hits, or ATC giving the extra crit, she'd be able to dish out consistent damage and have a high chance of turtling up to avoid attacks.

I think in practice this ability would be way inferior to Keyan.

Yeah. It sounds cool, but the problem is that your opponent can basically make your ability worthless (and leave you with stress to shed) by just shooting at someone else.

Also, green dice are just generally inferior to red dice, making it (even if they were both used every bit as often) weaker to begin with.

The idea I've toyed with once I get my Raider:

Turtley Enough For the Turtle Club

Carnor Jax:

Royal Guard TIE

Push the Limit

Autothrusters

Stealth Device

Tempest Squadron Pilot:

TIE/x1

Sensor Jammer

Tempest Squadron Pilot:

TIE/x1

Sensor Jammer

Storm Squadron Pilot:

TIE/x1

Sensor Jammer

Could also switch out Jax's SD for a Targeting Computer for more pewpewpew capability from him, and then I could trade a Tempest for a second Storm.

Use PTL to keep Jax up close and out of arcs, Sensor Jammers guarantee anyone Jax is huddled up next to will have at least one miss. Take Evade actions to guarantee further hilarity. Probably wouldn't kill much very quickly, however. Still, strikes me as an amusing list... especially against TIE swarms if Jax can flop into range one outside their arcs.

The problem with this list that I see is that it doesn't address the issue of Tie Advanced not having enough firepower.

Which I'm aware of and mentioned: it's not gonna kill much. Of course, flown right and neither would your opponent.

Way I see it, the enemy can either split up for focus on either Carnor or the Advanceds. If they go for the Advanceds, they can turtle up while Jax slips in behind and tries to lay on some hurt. If the enemy tries to go for Carnor, try to arc dodge with PTL and/or turtle and let the not completely un-maneuverable TIE Advanceds try to close in. Maybe try and force a close range brawl where the TIEs can fire a few more range one shots while still having extra defense thanks to Jax.

And I'll admit, it's still a pretty gimmicky idea, but one I'll give a whirl. Ideally, a Sensor Jamming TIE Advanced with Jax may be better suited to Vader, who can still Lock+Focus for more damage output, or could be given an Engine Upgrade to boost in with and fire three modified dice.

But Terrorpin Squad is still something I'm curious to try. See how many games I can win by a time victory and only killing one ship.

I'm waiting for a pilot to have an anti-Keyan ability. He gets to spend stress as a focus when attacking and I'd like to see a pilot be able to spend a stress as a focus token when defending. That would be a very powerful ability on a 3 agility Tie Advanced.

That would be a super cool pilot ability for Juno. I'd definitely love to fly her with that. With accuracy corrector giving 2 guaranteed hits, or ATC giving the extra crit, she'd be able to dish out consistent damage and have a high chance of turtling up to avoid attacks.

I think in practice this ability would be way inferior to Keyan.

It would be interesting to see a mathematical model for that. I mean, on the face of it, I think you may be wrong, simply because the attack and defense dice share the same percent chance of rolling a focus - 25%. But the attack and defense dice do not share the same percent chance of rolling a "success" which is either a hit or an evade. The chances of rolling a hit are 50%, but the chances of rolling an evade are close to 35%. So, if you have an ability that lets you spend stress to flip a focus to an evade, you are freeing up the option of choosing to take an evade token to flip your blanks if you're turtling up, which is much more beneficial on the defensive side than trusting to that 35% chance on the dice. Also, you can focus, and spend your focus on your attack, and then still essentially have a focus to spend on defense, which boosts your chance to evade as well.

So, I guess, in a case where you have Keyan's ability, you have a 50% chance to roll hits, so average 2 hits on a four dice attack. You have a 25% chance to roll a focus, so one focus on average. Keyan's ability would allow you to spend your stress to flip the focus for three hits, so you're adding one hit effectively. Contrast that with the ability to do the same thing on defense. Say you roll 4 evasion dice against a range 3 attack. On average, you'll get something over 1 evade, 1 focus, and then something over 1 blank. So, a roll of evade, evade, focus, blank, and a roll of blank, blank, focus, evade are equally likely. This means that the ability to spend that focus that you have really matters a lot, and being able to spend a stress token to do that would free up the ability to spend that focus on attack, or to take an evade action instead of a focus action.

I'm willing to admit it would allow for some great turtling situations, but look at how it varies from Keyan.

First to clarify, you can spend a focus token to change zero eyeballs into 0 hits. Keyan therefore only has to get a someone in arc to guarantee he will shed his stress. This new ability would require someone to shoot you to shed your stress. Granted you could say discouraging someone from even shooting at you is what you want, but your still stuck with a stress. Next turn you either lose your actions or pick a green. Almost sounds like flying a PLT interceptor but I think most agree the advanced dial is not as good as the interceptor for that kind of flying.

I don't think it would be the worst pilot ability in the game. I just don't think it would be that strong.

What do you guys think of this:

Tempest Squadron Pilot (22) x 3

TIE Advanced (21), TIE/x1 (0), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

Omicron Group Pilot (31)

Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), Advanced Sensors (3), Fleet Officer (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

Advanced goes TL, gets focus from Shuttle and with ATC gives serious punch. Or not?

It's....OK. You will run into issues with not being in range to get the TL due to low PS. I do believe that Accuracy Corrector is the best way to go. Think about it. You ALWAYS get 2 hits. You spend your action to either move (for blocking or better shots) or an Evade. If you give a free Focus from the shuttle, then these guys will be very hard to kill. Then again, you will see the Shuttle die fast.

Now, if you want to go with Col. Jendon and ST-321 title, you will have better luck. You can slow roll and give out as many TL to your buddies until the shooting begins. Then again, you lose the Fleet Officer.

I'm waiting for a pilot to have an anti-Keyan ability. He gets to spend stress as a focus when attacking and I'd like to see a pilot be able to spend a stress as a focus token when defending. That would be a very powerful ability on a 3 agility Tie Advanced.

That would be a super cool pilot ability for Juno. I'd definitely love to fly her with that. With accuracy corrector giving 2 guaranteed hits, or ATC giving the extra crit, she'd be able to dish out consistent damage and have a high chance of turtling up to avoid attacks.

What about a spin on Lando's ability? Roll a red, you may keep any hit, focus or crit result and add it to your attack roll this turn.

Juno was a pretty resourceful lady, afterall.

That's also a good one. Would probably be more helpful in mitigating the Advanced's lack of firepower, though with ATC that would potentially be adding two crits to a roll. Nice.

I'm waiting for a pilot to have an anti-Keyan ability. He gets to spend stress as a focus when attacking and I'd like to see a pilot be able to spend a stress as a focus token when defending. That would be a very powerful ability on a 3 agility Tie Advanced.

That would be a super cool pilot ability for Juno. I'd definitely love to fly her with that. With accuracy corrector giving 2 guaranteed hits, or ATC giving the extra crit, she'd be able to dish out consistent damage and have a high chance of turtling up to avoid attacks.

I think in practice this ability would be way inferior to Keyan.

Yeah. It sounds cool, but the problem is that your opponent can basically make your ability worthless (and leave you with stress to shed) by just shooting at someone else.

Also, green dice are just generally inferior to red dice, making it (even if they were both used every bit as often) weaker to begin with.

?

if your opponent doesn't shoot you because of your ability, you just got the best ability ever. I'll never understand why people look at pilots like Xizor and then come to the conclusion that his ability never comes into play just because your opponent won't shoot him instead of thinking "well ****, never thought they'd introduce a reverse Biggs because that ****'d be broken"

the weakness with that hypothetical ability is that your opponent will shoot you...with tactician

I was wondering about sensor jammers. TIE advanced have the edge in durability, so there's some mileage in taking systems which boost this further.

Tempest Squadron Pilot with TIE/x1 title, Sensor Jammer and Proton Rockets is a nice cheap unit - the agility and jammer keep him safe, but the Proton Rocket demands people actually shoot at him - at least enough to make him spend a focus token and disarm the rockets.