Quick tourney report and throwing this out there to see if anyone has tried it.

Been trying to get a Xizor "bugzapper" list working for a while, and then gave up because the 40 points spent on Xizor just wasn't doing enough damage and my 4 Z's with Feedback array were doing well but often die pretty quickly (since they're doing damage and being predictable on the next turn). One night, I woke up and thought of the "better" version, and "Thugzapper" was born.

2x Thug with Autoblaster Turret + Unhinged Astromech

2x Pirate with Feedback Array

2x Black Sun Soldier with Feedback Array (because I had 2 extra points and this allowed me to shoot/zap first against PS2 swarms.

Took it to a store championship and finished top 4 with it. I knew it was good against high agility aces (especially against Soontir and Whisper), but I never knew how good it would be against dual aggressors.

In the 6 games I played (4 swiss, 2 elimination), I played 3 dual IG lists with various loadouts (Pred/VI, Autothrusters, Mangler/Ion, AdS/FCS, Title), and while my Z's get popped pretty fast in the beginning, once I trap one of the IGs, the autoblaster hits just keep piling up. usually can kill an IG in 2-3 turns of autoblasting/zapping. All three games I ended up losing 3 Z's and my Y's did most of the work. Funny thing in all the games, I did exactly 1 "normal" damage against the IGs because 2 red dice just does nothing against 3 agility+focus+evade+autothrusters. All my damage was done by FBA and Autoblaster.

Faced off against an XXXZZZ swarm which was one of the toughest matches. Went to time and won by a ship. could have gone any direction, and again, I noticed my Z's get popped pretty easily and my 1Y survived and helped kill an X.

Lost a tight match against a standard Whisper/VI Chiraneau. Whisper lived 1 turn longer than she should and unloaded 5 hits/crits on a Y as a farewell shot. If Whisper died a turn earlier (had a few bad autoblaster rolls) or didn't do that much damage, Chiraneau probably might have died (ended up with 4 hull left).

Final loss was to a crazy unique Jan Ors, Jake, Tarn, Bandit list where Tarn survived a few turns longer than he should have (autoblaster fail) and it went to time. I had 2 full health Y's left, my last Z could have died by zapping her Z, and then it would have be 2 Y's against Jan and Jake. Jan probably would die in a turn or two, but Jake would have been a very long cat and mouse game.

So the list did better than I ever thought it would, and as a non-swarm player (I'm usually the Phantom/Decimator or other 2-3 ship build player), I actually really enjoyed the "fly crazy" aspect of this list, where you just lay down a zone of denial against ships and hurt them if they end up in R1 of any ship.

After thinking about it, I feel that the Z's are a little too squishy for 14-15 points, and maybe having 4 Y's and 1 Z with the same loadouts might be better? Then it's truly a THUGzapper list

New Version:

4 Thugs with Autoblaster turret + Unhinged

1 Black Sun Soldier with Feedback Array

99 points

Pros:

- 36 HP instead of 32 HP (though more 1 agility ships)

- More potential for dealing up to 2 damage instead of just 1

- Won't ion myself and limit my options the next turn

- Doesn't hurt myself

Cons:

- 1 fewer ship (not sure if that matters, since I usually get my 1 Z one-shotted on the first turn of firing anyways)

- can't shoot if they bump you intentionally or if I land on an asteroid (at least I can control this)

- Y's have 1 agility vs Z's 2 agility, but green dice are fickle

Just throwing it out there to see which version people think might be better and if I'm missing any pros and cons.

This looks like a fun list, i'm happy you did well with such a unique setup. I'm surprised the IG lists didnt take out your 2Y's first, they look like the biggest threat to me.

However, i'm not really convinced regarding your new version.

With Feedback Array you can use any ship for blocking and still do damage, if you trap with the Ys have a harder time imo.

You're right Zs can go down pretty fast but having one more ship still means the enemy has to concentrate fire on that ship one more round, keeping your more important targets alive (this is one of the reasons why 3z was such a big upgrade for Fat Han over 2X, together with their reduced point cost).

And lastly i think with just 2 dice your autoblaster can fail you even if you do get the block whereas the feedback array always works. Essentially what you have with the 2nd list is a weaker version of a 4warthog list..

I would suggest dropping 2 Thugs for Kavill+Autoblaster Turret+Unhinged+VI+Seismic (or another loadout) and another Z with feedback array. This is a more balanced list that keeps the spirit of your original approach. And you've got more options with Kavil who can lay down the law with 3dice autoblaster+Seismic. Too bad it's all range 1.

Having read your post, the scum version of XXXZZZ poped into my head. Replace the Rookies with ABT+UA Y's and your done!

You'll lose the FBA's but since you already have ABT's you have a lot of (to much?) redundancy in the no-green-dice-department anyway.

Dropping to 5 ships might hurt your damage against high hitpoint lists to much.

I tried a list close to your original one once upon a time. I was very impressed.

I think I called it...

Black Sun Syndicate

---------------------------

4 x Black Sun + FA

2 x Thug + ABT

After 1 game with it, I new that have Pirates in the mix made more sense for blocking AND more knowledge of when I need to use FA instead of main gun. I'm glad to see someone else tried some variation, and that you had success with it.

My future list attempts went similarly to...

Kavil + ABT

Thug + ABT

Thug + ABT

Thug + ABT

Binarye + FA/DMS

100 pts

I am also impressed with the autoblaster turret and am running something similar. I call it the Uncancellables:

3x Syndicate Thugs w/ ABT, unhinged astromech, bomb loadout and proximity mines

2x Pirates with feedback array.

not sure if relevent, but closest I've got to running "thugzappers" is

Guri (predator, auto-thrusters)

Cartel Scyk (title, mangler, hull)

Thug (unhinged, auto-blaster) x 2

Been enjoying a lot of success with this, even before everyone started playing with the phantom errata. I prefer the combination of auto-blasters and intimidating firing arcs rather than tons of range 1 denial, but that might just be playstyle (love barrel-roll ships and couldn't imagine running a list without any). Only horrible loss it has suffered is against fat han + mini-swarm because I engaged horribly and the Zs ate the Y-wings.

Might be an angle to consider if you don't enjoy skewing lists. Guri is a **** terror against ships that normally threaten Ys (lots of little attacks) and a great sledge hammer, while the Scyk is a pretty hilarious follow-up to auto-blaster shots which tend to strip shields for its crit.

I tried a list close to your original one once upon a time. I was very impressed.

I think I called it...

Black Sun Syndicate

---------------------------

4 x Black Sun + FA

2 x Thug + ABT

After 1 game with it, I new that have Pirates in the mix made more sense for blocking AND more knowledge of when I need to use FA instead of main gun. I'm glad to see someone else tried some variation, and that you had success with it.

My future list attempts went similarly to...

Kavil + ABT

Thug + ABT

Thug + ABT

Thug + ABT

Binarye + FA/DMS

100 pts

It took me about 3 minutes to figure out what you mean by DMS

Didn't you miss unhinged astro (UA!) on the Ys?

This looks like a fun list, i'm happy you did well with such a unique setup. I'm surprised the IG lists didnt take out your 2Y's first, they look like the biggest threat to me.

However, i'm not really convinced regarding your new version.

With Feedback Array you can use any ship for blocking and still do damage, if you trap with the Ys have a harder time imo.

You're right Zs can go down pretty fast but having one more ship still means the enemy has to concentrate fire on that ship one more round, keeping your more important targets alive (this is one of the reasons why 3z was such a big upgrade for Fat Han over 2X, together with their reduced point cost).

And lastly i think with just 2 dice your autoblaster can fail you even if you do get the block whereas the feedback array always works. Essentially what you have with the 2nd list is a weaker version of a 4warthog list..

I would suggest dropping 2 Thugs for Kavill+Autoblaster Turret+Unhinged+VI+Seismic (or another loadout) and another Z with feedback array. This is a more balanced list that keeps the spirit of your original approach. And you've got more options with Kavil who can lay down the law with 3dice autoblaster+Seismic. Too bad it's all range 1.

Thanks for the feedback (no pun intended ). I actually came up with a Kavil version last night too, but with VI and Engine (to get that jump on a lower PS ship), but the issue is, with 3Y2Z, it's going to be same same issue as 4Y1Z which is fewer ships to block. I'm just not convinced Kavil is that great with an ABT with the R1 limit. He's as easy to focus down as a Y, and if you fly him carefully, he won't be in the R1 range AND out of arc.

I'm still debating with myself about 5 ships vs 6 ships. Yes, one more Z means more ships shooting at another target, but it generally gets popped after 1-2 ships shooting at it first engagement (while still in R2-3), so I'm pretty much flying with 5 ships. A Y-wing would be able to survive that R2-3 engagement, and if I fly it correctly, deny a ship on the other side from shooting it the next turn (by bumping or charging past), and maybe even surviving to get a shot back. I'll have to play it a little to know.

Having read your post, the scum version of XXXZZZ poped into my head. Replace the Rookies with ABT+UA Y's and your done!

You'll lose the FBA's but since you already have ABT's you have a lot of (to much?) redundancy in the no-green-dice-department anyway.

Dropping to 5 ships might hurt your damage against high hitpoint lists to much.

Definitely an interesting idea! But the weakness with XXXZZZ is the hard movement, and that's what made the FBA Z's so much fun and so much more useful in Scum. The issue with 3 Ys replacing 3 Xs is probably firepower, which I'm not sure if it can be made up by having ABTs... Might be an interesting one to try!

Did you even find that you wanted Engine on your autoblaster Ys?

I have had problems making the Ys keep high agility ships within range 1.

What has worked for you?

Also, how valuable is the Unhinged Astromech?

5xYs with Autoblasters = 100

Also, how valuable is the Unhinged Astromech?

5xYs with Autoblasters = 100

I'd rather have some Z's to take down those large ships and Bwings + the mechs.

Not sure, whether this list is better than the Rebel version. Same PS would be nice, but PS 1 can be a great blocker against Rebel swarms.

Final loss was to a crazy unique Jan Ors, Jake, Tarn, Bandit list where Tarn survived a few turns longer than he should have (autoblaster fail) and it went to time. I had 2 full health Y's left, my last Z could have died by zapping her Z, and then it would have be 2 Y's against Jan and Jake. Jan probably would die in a turn or two, but Jake would have been a very long cat and mouse game.

I don't know if I agree with you about my Jan - with engine upgrade she's pretty hard to catch, and once you're in range two a Y-wing is likely ionized every round. It would have been pretty up in the air if neither of us made a mistake.

Re: the last question about Unhinged Astromech - I think it was completely necessary on the Y-wings, it would have been nearly impossible for them to catch anything otherwise.

Did you even find that you wanted Engine on your autoblaster Ys?

I have had problems making the Ys keep high agility ships within range 1.

What has worked for you?

Not really. Since they move at PS2, the engine will not really help them catch high agility (and usually high PS) ships. Having enough ships and flying in a spread out pattern worked out the best for me. When the two sides are getting close, guessing the convergence point correctly was the key to winning the games I won.

Also, how valuable is the Unhinged Astromech?

5xYs with Autoblasters = 100

EXTREMELY. Otherwise, I would totally fly the 5Y with Autoblaster. But dat dial... The lack of any banks for greens means if you're stressed, you're just rolling unmodified dice and can't even do a 3 hard turn or k-turn, which will be the death of this list.

Also, how valuable is the Unhinged Astromech?

5xYs with Autoblasters = 100

I'd rather have some Z's to take down those large ships and Bwings + the mechs.

Not sure, whether this list is better than the Rebel version. Same PS would be nice, but PS 1 can be a great blocker against Rebel swarms.

That's the hard thing with Z's, they're great for blockers (I love the PS1 Z's), they're also great to shoot first or zap first to kill a PS2 swarm ship (using the PS3 version). I think the list worked well because I had 2 of each PS.

Final loss was to a crazy unique Jan Ors, Jake, Tarn, Bandit list where Tarn survived a few turns longer than he should have (autoblaster fail) and it went to time. I had 2 full health Y's left, my last Z could have died by zapping her Z, and then it would have be 2 Y's against Jan and Jake. Jan probably would die in a turn or two, but Jake would have been a very long cat and mouse game.

I don't know if I agree with you about my Jan - with engine upgrade she's pretty hard to catch, and once you're in range two a Y-wing is likely ionized every round. It would have been pretty up in the air if neither of us made a mistake.

Re: the last question about Unhinged Astromech - I think it was completely necessary on the Y-wings, it would have been nearly impossible for them to catch anything otherwise.

Well, Jan was heading towards where the 2 Ys were going in our last turn, so I think if I guessed correctly and Jan couldn't boost out (or I blocked her with one), then hopefully that's up to 2 damage (or if I"m lucky, 3-4 damage with 2 ships shooting). Jan already lost her shields, so she could be at 1 hull after that encounter. Then one Y will be ionized and the other Y will have to guess where Jan is going. So yea, completely agree it's up in the air. I think an untimed game would have been a very fun and challenging game for both of us considering who was alive at the end.