Can you select a character to fulfill a military claim that you can save from some other effect?

For example Pentos: Kill character for claim save by discarding attachment for pentos. Legal?

Or the power of blood plot: Select a noble for claim but can't be killed hence saved, Legal? or only legal if you only have noble characters to select.

Those are two different examples but kind of the same type of thing.

jugglingfool said:

Actually, they are two very different examples. Here's why:

Saves (and cancels) are the only true interrupts in the game. They take place after the kill effect has initiated, but before the kill effect resolves - essentially blocking their resolution. So a character that is saved never actually dies, but the kill effect has already initiated and you cannot go backwards and choose a different character to die.

Military challenge claim is just another type of kill effect. So...

jugglingfool said:

Yes. Legal. And in fact, much of the point of saves since military challenge claim is the most common kill effect in the game. You initiate the claim, choose your target, then save it before the kill effect resolves.

jugglingfool said:

Not legal, but probably not for the reason you're thinking. If a character cannot be killed, it is not "hence saved" because if a character cannot be killed, it cannot be included in the initiation of a kill effect. Ever. Because the Noble cannot be killed, you may not legally choose it as the target for military claim. That's great if you have only Noble characters out because it means you cannot even choose a character to die - the same way that you would have no one to choose to die for claim if there were no characters at all. It's not so great if you have non-Nobles out because it means the non-Nobles cannot "hide behind" the CBK Nobles. You must choose from among your legal targets when you initiate the kill. The thing to recognize here is that since a kill effect will never initiate on a "cannot be killed" character, there is never any reason (and thus, never any opportunity) to save them from being killed.

Anyway, unless the kill effect specifically says "cannot be saved," you can always use a save once the kill effect has been initiated. What can, or might, happen in the future is never taken into account when initiating an effect now. But a character that "cannot be killed" now is not a legal choice when picking targets for a kill effect. Essentially "cannot be killed" means "don't even try to kill."

Makes perfect sense thanks.