Total new GM confusion and fright

By SuperFieroStatus, in Dark Heresy Gamemasters

SuperFieroStatus said:

Once again I want to thank everyone for all of their help. This forum has already served as an invaluable tool and I really appreciate how helpful and cool everyone is.

Another question I forgot to ask...how do you choose what your enemy NPCs attack in combat? Logic may dictate that they should all gang up on anyone enhancing the party (provided they understand what the hell the Psyker is doing chanting all that gibberish), or maybe even the guy with the biggest gun. I mean, my party is smart enough to gang up on the "boss", knowing that he is the biggest threat. But how can this issue be resolved? This is also barring examples where the enemy wouldn't know who is strongest (like an animal or a particularly dull gangster) in which case I just roll to see who the enemy attacks first.

So with "smart" enemies...

On one hand the enemy should be smart enough to know who the biggest threat is, and attack accordingly. If there is a boss, he should even rally his warriors to attack the same target (except in strategic situations). I know my own players will do that. But this makes my stronger combat players constantly targetted.

On the other hand, if I randomize it all, and have the enemies switch targets often for seemingly illogical reasons, it eliminates this sort of anti-favoritism but brings forth stupid enemies. I feel as though my players would see what I'm doing and think "Pfft...he just wants to make sure John doesn't die", in turn partially trivializing any threats they encounter.

How do your "smart enemies" choose their targets? Should I have a constant list of criteria for this? I mean if I had to I guess I would come up with some excuses for random target changes as to not eliminate the sense of threat during combat. But how many until they get ridiculous?

Okay, here's how I do it. Mooks, or general riffraff to blow though, I roll a die randomly to determine, unless someone has injured either the attacker or someone the attacker is near. Then I attack the person who inflicted the injury. If there is a clear, immediate threat, they attack the clear, immediate threat (the cleric screaming prayers to the emperor as he rushes with a chainsword brandished). They will also follow a big bad evil guy (BBEG)'s directions. I will not roll on the critical damage chart. As soon as anyone inflicts critical damage, the mook is down. Death, while always a possibility, is unlikely in these encounters. They serve to make characters feel competent in combat and to slow down players.

Professionals (cops, whatnot). First few turns they'll gang up on whoever looks like the biggest potential threat. They will gang up on the psyker (this is a well known threat to magic users in general. It's called "GEEK THE MAGE FIRST!"), or barring that, will assault whomever appears to be the leader of the combat. They will gang up and it will require team tactics to overcome. They will also use cover. I will occasionally use the critical chart depending on how gory I need the game to be. Death is a significant possibility, but is avoidable with effort.

Significant threats: Commandos, assassians, seasoned veterans. These people are capable of everything the PCs are. I will use tactics the PCs have used against them. I will ambush. I will geek the psyker first. I will use hit and run tactics. I will retreat to better combat ground. I will use critical hit charts and will generally be as evil and deceptive and vicious as I can. They will use communication, ideally private coms, to coordinate group attacks against the PCs. They will use mooks generally, moreso to give the players the feeling that they're making some progress against the baddies while they slowly wear down the veterans. Big Bad Evil Guys usually qualify in this range. Player deaths are likely without some really good tactics. I *might* introduce guys of this caliber once per adventure. They are a climax encounter.

SuperFieroStatus said:

(1) Should I make the game easier and allow more successes where there would be failures? Or would this trivialize the game? IS there a happy medium? If so, explain.

(2) More contemporary missions? They seemed to not give a **** about possible heresy in some barren world.

(3) Is Illumination just not that great of a game?

(4) If you were a hot dog, would you eat yourself? I know I would.

(5) How do you deal with first time gamers? Maybe the just needed to get their feet wet?

(1) As noted above, combat modifiers are your party's friend. Encourage them to actively utilize the modifier table (this means you should print out that page and give them copies of the modifier table

(2) Preferably in game, have a third party comment on where the party erred and what should be done in the future. You might want to throw an Arbitrator in their group to provide "hints". This should help you illustrate clues that are left for the party to discover.

(3) "Illumination" is a great game. My party had a blast playing it. Except the psyker. He got a free possession. And a bullet to the brain pan. *BLAM*

(4) Being that I'm not made up of ground cow hooves and pig lips, that answer would be a double "no"

(5) First time gamers aren't too difficult. Award good behavior and they will go where you lead them ("Good Boy Spot!"). By that I mean, at the end of the night, hand out your "roleplay" xp and cite examples. Ex: "Bob, you were really in character when you were talking to that Guardsman, take an additional 50 xp". Do it at the table with everyone there. They'll get the notion pretty quick that good roleplay gets xp.

as far as number one goes, you should just remeber the events and go"ad-libs" in the parts you don't remeber. Also buying a GM screen makes opening the book for reference less of a pain, because you probaly won't have to worry about them peaking.(yes, i have one of those players)

GET A NOTEBOOK!!!!!!!(or some other sod to be the GM)

I finally picked up some supplies. I ordered the GM kit on eBay ($8.67 after shipping. Not too shabby. I also picked up a NEW rulebook on there for $35 before), I bought a notebook, some graph paper, pencils, printed out some ammo counters from Dark Reign ( http://www.darkreign40k.com/downloads/gaming-aids/mk1-ammo-counter-by-luther/download.html , and I think I'm going to buy some more d10s today. I have 6 but I think I want 4 more to be comfortable and give everyone a pair.

SuperFieroStatus said:

I finally picked up some supplies. I ordered the GM kit on eBay ($8.67 after shipping. Not too shabby. I also picked up a NEW rulebook on there for $35 before), I bought a notebook, some graph paper, pencils, printed out some ammo counters from Dark Reign ( http://www.darkreign40k.com/downloads/gaming-aids/mk1-ammo-counter-by-luther/download.html , and I think I'm going to buy some more d10s today. I have 6 but I think I want 4 more to be comfortable and give everyone a pair.

As far as supplies go, the only other suggestion I have is to pick up some of the slender three-ring binders available at OfficeMax or OfficeDepot, or any other business supplier. Additionally, one box of clear heavy duty sheet protectors and have your players put their character sheets in the protectors and kept in the binder. Great for organizing, and if they have to write notes on the character sheets, or take damage, they can use a water soluble marker. Keeps the players from wearing a hole through the character sheets from excessive erasing and re-marking. It also prevents character sheets from being: lost, torn, crumpled, etc. If the cost seems unbearable, ask the players to assist in making donations to the cause.

If you are new to the genre as well as GM-ing, you can give yourself a leg up on the improv by getting a better feel for the background as a whole.

The Eisenhorn trilogy of novels is great but dont forget the "original" inquisitor trilogy by Ian Watson. The books are now available collected into a single volume. Also, the spin-off series from the Eisenhorn books is the Ravenor trilogy. All of these should be available at a good game store that carries Games Workshop minis. If there isn't one near you, try the big chain bookstores (Boarders, Barnes and Noble, Virgin, etc) or the internet.

One source of inquisition material that folks tend to overlook is the rulebook for GW's retired game Inquisitor. It is now available as a free download on the GW website at http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat410008&categoryId=1100014&section=&aId=4900004 .

Don't despair. GM-ing can be one of the most rewarding gaming experiences you'll ever have. The more ammo you have at your disposal, the more likely you are to hit the mark.

Sinsinatus

Sinsinatus said:

One source of inquisition material that folks tend to overlook is the rulebook for GW's retired game Inquisitor. It is now available as a free download on the GW website at http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat410008&categoryId=1100014&section=&aId=4900004 .

Sinsinatus

Couldn't find the article you listed here. I also went directly to GW (US) and searched the "Article's" section. To no avail. Any further info?

Ah. It seems to be in one of the periodic phases where they just don't have it up. Try from here . If you can't get it there let me know and I'll see if I can sort out a copy for people.

Illithidelderbrain said:

Couldn't find the article you listed here. I also went directly to GW (US) and searched the "Article's" section. To no avail. Any further info?

It should take you to a splash page asking you to select your country. Once you do that, it will load up the pdf section for Inquisitor. once there, I also highly recommend you grabbing the Thorian Sourcebook. It has a lot of good info and ideas on how the Inquisition tends to be structured and contains a nice spoonful of all kinds of other tidbits about the universe. It's strait up a book of information, no rules really, just info.

If you can't get the link above to work, here's a couple of direct links to the Inquisitor and Thorian pdfs.

INQUISITOR I

INQUISITOR II

THORIANS

Edit:

Heck, i would recomend the Thorian book above the Inquisitor core book as most of the Iquisitor rule book is just that, rules for the Inquisitor game, but there are some nice passages at the very front of the book and things to pick out here and there amidst the massive wall of rules.

As someone who started GMing (and was insanely new to roleplaying) quite recently, here are a few hints on how things worked for me:

Adventures as they are described in the books are quite horrible, lots of text and things you'll never remember.

Best thing to do is to know what you want to achieve from a specific scene, like say you have a haunted house or something your acolytes are meant to investigate. Rather than detailing every aspect of the house like the books do, get a writing pad and record only the most skeletal relevant details:

"Haunted House:

-doors locked, no working power

-headless bodies holding hands in basement

-Murderer's diary in upstairs bedroom. Last entry is a suicide note. Reveals Inquisitor Lucia bound the original daemon host.

-If the candle in front of the murderer's mirror summons an astral specter (Creatures Anathema pg 96) if lit.

"

Your group might spend a half hour or more investigating that house, but all of the relevant info is right there in that litle checklist. It allows you to ensure that the acolytes do meet with the right clues and obstacles when adventuring, and ensures you don't miss important details. As for the group's adventure in the house? Make it up. You already know what the haunted house is like- after all, you invented it. You don't need to write down every single last detail about it, do you?

Little notes like these make encounters insanely easy to manage, and ensure things keep flowing, provided you have the ability to embellish your little bullet points, and make them come to life.

As for the 'epic dialogue'. Myself and my friends are similar, to be honest. But the more seriously you take characters and their speech, the more seriously your friends will too. Any initial embarassment on your part, or sniggers from your friends, should be ignored. With persistence, the novelty wears off very quickkly, and you'll find you and your players getting sucked in. I generally tend to toss minor characters like arbiters and functionaries around to roleplay so I can get comfortable playing relatively "normal" characters who talk like regular people, before I have to do any scenery chewing epic performances as inquisitors or crazed villains etc.

Hope some of this is of help to you, I'm refining my technique even as we speak.

Alrighty, I ran my second game last night, finishing Illumination and beginning a little segway adventure for them. It went a little better then last time. They were a little more smart this time around and I was better with my ad lib when it came to events I couldn't even begin to forsee. (I was particularly proud when my Cleric thought to throw the book given to him by Eisha Raine into the warp in the cathedral. It made for some cool stuff.) Combat was better this time around. Modifiers made it so they hit around 40-60% of the time instead of 20-30%. I also found out they NONE of my players can sit through long speeches or discriptions. They get bored and zone out. NOBODY remembered ANYTHING that Aristarchus said while talking to Eishe Raine.

So I guess my only question this time around is...how do you end your adventures? They killed The Crow Father and I was going to just describe a little of the aftermath and automatically put them back home but then decided that I could have them return to Port Suffering and have some events happen there. Which they did. And now it has made for their next adventure.

So do you guys like to say "The End" and start the next one fresh or do you segway them in big long stories?

SuperFieroStatus said:

Alrighty, I ran my second game last night, finishing Illumination and beginning a little segway adventure for them. It went a little better then last time. They were a little more smart this time around and I was better with my ad lib when it came to events I couldn't even begin to forsee. (I was particularly proud when my Cleric thought to throw the book given to him by Eisha Raine into the warp in the cathedral. It made for some cool stuff.) Combat was better this time around. Modifiers made it so they hit around 40-60% of the time instead of 20-30%. I also found out they NONE of my players can sit through long speeches or discriptions. They get bored and zone out. NOBODY remembered ANYTHING that Aristarchus said while talking to Eishe Raine.

So I guess my only question this time around is...how do you end your adventures? They killed The Crow Father and I was going to just describe a little of the aftermath and automatically put them back home but then decided that I could have them return to Port Suffering and have some events happen there. Which they did. And now it has made for their next adventure.

So do you guys like to say "The End" and start the next one fresh or do you segway them in big long stories?

Again, it depends on the story. My introductary session was stand-alone, yet two days passed before the next adventure started up. At the end of this story, probably 2 or 3 months will pass while they wait for the Inquisitor to come in and put his stamp of approval on everything, and then they'll move on.

Also, 40-60% hit rate is far more normal than what you were having. Congrats. It sounds like you have a nanescent game. Adapt to what makes your players happy, and you will be happy.

Moff8 said:

When I started GM'ing a new game I used to read the adventure a few times and then break it down into the characters and rolls required. It allowed me to think about the storyline and dialogue without having to worry too much about rules.

Like this one I did for a Wheel of Time game:

Megda Sedai - Fiery redhead w. pale skin and green eyes
Maynard - Warder with barrel chest from Tar Valon
Both last seen in Tobin's hollow a village 3 days travel west of Aturo's Orchard.
Month is start of November

Soldier HP 6 Init +2 Def 15 Atk +3 (D8+2) Mounted Combat(Ride +5 to avoid damage)
Officer HP 32 Init +5 Def 17 Atk +5 (D8+2 18-20 x2) Mounted Combat (Ride +7 to avoid damage)
Murdoc HP 36 Init +2 Def 20 Atk +7 LSw(D8+2) Listen +6 Spot +4 Feats: Alertness, Mounted Combat
Lord TIMAK HP 51 Init +7 Def 21 Atk +10 LSw(D8+3) Sense Motive +8 Feats: Dark Ones Own Luck, Dodge.


Travel - Muddy road down from hills. Forested on either side of road.

SPOT check DC8 notice large flying creature (to'raken) - SPOT DC15 it has a rider.
Flies in ever tightning circles until disappears behind trees. CLIMB tree DC11 SPOT DC16 = pinpoint landing 1/2 mile North.

5 mins into forest discover clearing with mist (weave)on northern edge MOVE SILENTLY opposed by LISTEN +4 see 6 men in strange colourful armour an Officer and a Rider with his To'raken. Officer 32 Soldier HP 6 7 8 9 9 10
Rider 20 Tactics: protect until clear then attack.
If half down surrenders. When rider in saddle gets +4 Def.
Officer offers quarter if a player goes down. During battle villagers will attack

Meet with BRYAN LISBET wisdom of Toban's Hollow
Attacked by TORM hp 52 Init +2 Def 16 Atk claws +12 D8+7 and RIDER hp 32 if either loses 20 hp then he withdraws to alert LORD TIMAK

Arrival Tobin's Hollow - small village of around 12 structures and 40 soldiers.

Road winds down from hills to village.
SPOT DC16 blue and white banners on stout poles outside Inn of Valley
SPOT DC19 more soldiers in stables behind INN. 2 x 5 man patrols circle village and a ten man squad wait in front of the Inn led by Murdoc
Open approach:
Approached by 10 soldiers and MURDOC and asked for 3 oaths
1. TO OBEY THE FORERUNNERS
2. TO AWAIT THE RETURN
3. TO SERVE THOSE WHO COME HOME
If polite they are taken with weapons to see LORD TIMAK. Else weapons removed by force if needed and taken to LORD TIMAK.
asked where going, where been BLUFF +4 due to indifference against SENSE MOTIVE +2. If all OK then sent on their way. 4 soldiers in the room with Murdoc. Women tested by Serrah - Sul'dam and Druu - Damane SPOT DC 8 she is holding the source.
Sneak approach:
If observe patrols +5 HIDE 2 groups of 5 soldiers ride around. Locals know of a ditch that leads into village HIDE +5 vs Murdoc SPOT +4
INT check DC16 to find route through village not visible from common. If failed then HIDE vs SPOT +4 and MOVE SILENT vs LISTEN +6


It was a lot more work than really required but it worked for me.

Ah that brings back memories! I played that module twice despite it obvious flaws. Thank the emperor that DH system and modules are infitiely better and easier.

To the OP: Probably said before, but yeah relax. Every GM has been there before, when I first GMed WoT I was very inexperienced, but with time and training I have become better and more confident.

For the "flavour" text and predone dialoge: Don't do them! If the players are obviosuly bored or inattentive, interrupt yourself with action or just make your own. I found that in my group I usually have to do this anyway as English is our second language and not everyone is comfortable just listening to it, or automatically think "flavor" text is unimportant. So yes use your own words the players will notice and are more likely to pay attention and enjoy it. If they don't, feel free to mix in some half-seen assailant and have anyone not really paying attention being suprised the first round ;)

After Illumination I basically did the "the end" (without saying it). The PCs, having wrecked their flatbed truck was stuck there, but they were being treated as heroes by the locals so they enjoyed it for a week until Inquisitorial stormtroopers and Adeptus Sororitas arrived and they were debriefed by one if their Inquisitor's Interrogators. This way I introduced an important NPC and made the game less episodic and the Inquisitision less faceless. If you haven't done it already, start thinking about what kind of Inquisitor you want to use and how he/she should interract with the Acolytes.

After Illumination I had a bunch of Clergy turn up. Led by a Deacon Vrost (character based upon the 'jack the ripper' interrogator in Bablylon 5) and his 4 sororotas guards who would have loved to have put the characters to the question but did not have enough clout as the characters were using their rosette.

His job was to show that the clergy were not responsible for the events during Illumination. He decided to blame the =I= or the locals for what happened. The =I= contact the characters and tell them to protect the =I = reputation at all cost.

The Deacon arrived at the cathedral and immediatly rounded up all the locals and forced them inside. When the characters arrive the inside of the cathedral has been turned into a charnel house of torture. The characters turn up and are not happy. The form a plan to kill all the clergy and then execute it. Everyone in the cathedral and the guards outside are wiped out.

No one knows what happened but it appears that one of the clergy shuttles malfuntioned and crashed headfirst into the cathedral.

+++ Rob or Gerry don't read this bit+++

Deacon Vrost was protected by personal shield and survived the explosion but was severely injured. He doesn't know what happened but he really really wants to ask the characters :)

SuperFieroStatus said:

Alrighty, I ran my second game last night, finishing Illumination and beginning a little segway adventure for them. It went a little better then last time. They were a little more smart this time around and I was better with my ad lib when it came to events I couldn't even begin to forsee. (I was particularly proud when my Cleric thought to throw the book given to him by Eisha Raine into the warp in the cathedral. It made for some cool stuff.) Combat was better this time around. Modifiers made it so they hit around 40-60% of the time instead of 20-30%. I also found out they NONE of my players can sit through long speeches or discriptions. They get bored and zone out. NOBODY remembered ANYTHING that Aristarchus said while talking to Eishe Raine.

So I guess my only question this time around is...how do you end your adventures? They killed The Crow Father and I was going to just describe a little of the aftermath and automatically put them back home but then decided that I could have them return to Port Suffering and have some events happen there. Which they did. And now it has made for their next adventure.

So do you guys like to say "The End" and start the next one fresh or do you segway them in big long stories?

Instead of delivering lengthy speeches, have lengthy conversations with your players, make it a two way process, have them talk back at you. If they forget relevant details, have them take an intelligence test to remember at the crucial moment.

As for storyline? If you've got a big, huge, overreaching storyline, it's cool to let your players play as other people sometimes. A different inquisitorial cell, some arbiters, or even cultists. Maybe in one session, have the players, all playing as new characters, investigate a heathen gun-running operation. At the end of the session, the players are all killed by genestealers. The next session, the players return to their 'main' characters, investigating the disappearance of an inquisitorial cell on Grove's Fall...

SuperFieroStatus said:

So do you guys like to say "The End" and start the next one fresh or do you segway them in big long stories?

In my campaign a squad of Sisters of Battle from the Abbey of Dawn came to the cathedral in their Thunderhawk Gunship about half an hour after the final encounter with the Skae-Thing. All the Abbey's Astropaths were knocked out by the pulse of energy sent out by the 'dying' daemon and so the Sisters of Battle were sent to investigate. The PC's used Aristarchus Rosette (IIRC) to convince the Sisters they are the 'good guys' and were flown out to Port Suffering. In the mission debriefing months later they then read the Adeptus Sororitas cleansed the area (and any living creature therein) for square kilometers with flamer and melta fire...