There's a sneaky gotcha I found in the Rules Reference on p. 4:

• A ship cannot resolve the same command more than once per round.
• A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects.

So if you have a Concentrate Fire token from earlier and a CF order on your dial, you can't spend them separately on two different attacks. If you want to use both, they have to be on the same shot.

(Also: you don't spend a CF dial to add an attack die until after you've rolled the original dice.)

You are not allowed to have a 2nd copy of any command token. If you get a 2nd copy for whatever reason, you are to immediately discard it.

(Also: you don't spend a CF dial to add an attack die until after you've rolled the original dice.)

Ohh, good eye, sir.

• Modify Dice, pg 2

You are not allowed to have a 2nd copy of any command token. If you get a 2nd copy for whatever reason, you are to immediately discard it.

I'm not talking about two Concentrate Fire tokens (which is pretty plainly prohibited). I'm talking about a Concentrate Fire order on your current dial plus a Concentrate Fire token from a previous turn.

They don't have to be used in the same attack. You can spend them whenever you want.

The command dial and command tokens are different. FFG should have named them differently. The Dial is revealed, then you have a choice, spend the dial and give yourself a token, or place the dial next to your ship. Now, you either use that command dial during the activation of that ship, or you don't. Use it or loose it. You can keep the token.

In your case the CF Dial is revealed and you already have a CF token. You really don't have a choice here, so keep the dial near your ship in hopes you can use it for your benefit. During the Attack Phase, use the dial if you can on any of the attacks you are entitled to make. You can also use the token whenever you want as well. Maybe your command dial gave you the benefits you need and you want to save your token for the next turn because you will be revealing a squadron command and your movement will put you in a good spot.

There is an example in the rules where a player using the command dial Navigate, and also uses a Navigate token in the same phase. But, revealing a command dial does not require you to use that dial and any token you have that correspond to it. Don't use any if you choose. Remember, revealing the command dial is the first thing you do - you either intend to use that command during the ship's activation or give yourself a token (if you are allowed to have one).

Wygo, you don't seem to be on the same page with what is being discussed and are making some incorrect assertions.

While the Command Dial and a Command Token are separate things, spending either is resolving a Command (RRG PG 3 Commands)

The rules also note that, "A Ship cannot resolve the same Command more then once per round" (RRG PG 4 Commands)

Right below that it says "A Ship can spend both a Command Dial and Command Token to combine thier effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the Command". Hence the example you noted.

Now with that we can address the subject at hand.

Can you use the ConFire Command Dial on one attack, and the ConFire Command Token on another attack from the same ship in the same round?

As the OP stated the answer is clearly no.

Spending Dial or Token is considered resolving the Command. You can not resolve the same Command with the same ship twice in a round. Thus you can not use the Dial on one attack and Token on another, as that is two instances of resolving the Command. You can combined the effects of the two, but it would be for the extra die and a re-roll on the same attack.

Yeah the OP is correct. Interesting that you don't have to add the dice from the command dial until after you have already rolled the attack dice. Kind of means you can save it for an already good attack to make it excellent, and then possibly reroll that dice if it isn't brilliant, or what you wanted, i.e. a blue accuracy result.

Well spotted, that's an easy one to miss. It makes sense I suppose, after all it is CONCENTRATE Fire.

Yeah the OP is correct. Interesting that you don't have to add the dice from the command dial until after you have already rolled the attack dice. Kind of means you can save it for an already good attack to make it excellent, and then possibly reroll that dice if it isn't brilliant, or what you wanted, i.e. a blue accuracy result.

Actually, I wonder whether even that is illegal. Since you apparently need to spend the dial and the token simultaneously, I'd argue that you couldn't spend the dial to roll an extra die, then spend the token to reroll the extra die. The token rerolls a die already in the attack pool, and at the time you spend the token, the extra die isn't there yet. I don't know what FFG intended.

I was thinking the same Quarrel.

True, but technically you are still in the same step so might be allowed. It might have been intended that you both re-roll and add a new dice simultaneously, though and I am taking it a step too far.

Interesting catch. Certainly appears to be that more than one attack couldn't be affected by concentrate fire.

Yeah the OP is correct. Interesting that you don't have to add the dice from the command dial until after you have already rolled the attack dice. Kind of means you can save it for an already good attack to make it excellent, and then possibly reroll that dice if it isn't brilliant, or what you wanted, i.e. a blue accuracy result.

Actually, I wonder whether even that is illegal. Since you apparently need to spend the dial and the token simultaneously, I'd argue that you couldn't spend the dial to roll an extra die, then spend the token to reroll the extra die. The token rerolls a die already in the attack pool, and at the time you spend the token, the extra die isn't there yet. I don't know what FFG intended.

I was thinking the same Quarrel.

I think you can reroll the added die.

Reason being that both effects happen during the same phase, but the wording is specific:

RR Page 4

Concentrate Fire: Resolve during the "Resolve Attack Effects" step of an attack.

- Dial: Add one attack die to the attack pool . That die must be of a color that is already in the attack pool.

- Token: Reroll one attack die in the attack pool .

Since the die is adding one die to the attack pool , it is now a part of the attack pool, and as such counts as a die in the attack pool that can be rerolled.

Also RR Page 2

Attack Pool

During an attack the attack pool is comprised of all dice being used for that attack. This includes the dice gathered prior to rolling as well as the dice after they are rolled.

And RR Page 7

Modifying Dice

- Add: When a die is added, roll an unused die of the appropriate color into the attack pool .

Yeah the OP is correct. Interesting that you don't have to add the dice from the command dial until after you have already rolled the attack dice. Kind of means you can save it for an already good attack to make it excellent, and then possibly reroll that dice if it isn't brilliant, or what you wanted, i.e. a blue accuracy result.

Actually, I wonder whether even that is illegal. Since you apparently need to spend the dial and the token simultaneously, I'd argue that you couldn't spend the dial to roll an extra die, then spend the token to reroll the extra die. The token rerolls a die already in the attack pool, and at the time you spend the token, the extra die isn't there yet. I don't know what FFG intended.

I was thinking the same Quarrel.

I think you can reroll the added die.

Reason being that both effects happen during the same phase, but the wording is specific:

Concentrate Fire: Resolve during the "Resolve Attack Effects" step of an attack.

- Dial: Add one attack die to the attack pool . That die must be of a color that is already in the attack pool.

- Token: Reroll one attack die in the attack pool .

Since the die is adding one die to the attack pool , it is now a part of the attack pool, and as such counts as a die in the attack pool that can be rerolled.

As yet, I've found nothing that indicates timing that would contradict that conclusion.

The question is not "Can you reroll the die added by Concentrate Fire?" I think it's quite clear that if you spend both a Concentrate Fire Dial and token you can. The question is "Can I spend a Concentrate Fire Dial, roll, and then spend a Concentrate Fire token to reroll?"

Currently the rules say no because a ship can not resolve the same command more than once per round. You need to declare both expenditures at the same time, or just stick to one of them.

Yeah the OP is correct. Interesting that you don't have to add the dice from the command dial until after you have already rolled the attack dice. Kind of means you can save it for an already good attack to make it excellent, and then possibly reroll that dice if it isn't brilliant, or what you wanted, i.e. a blue accuracy result.

Actually, I wonder whether even that is illegal. Since you apparently need to spend the dial and the token simultaneously, I'd argue that you couldn't spend the dial to roll an extra die, then spend the token to reroll the extra die. The token rerolls a die already in the attack pool, and at the time you spend the token, the extra die isn't there yet. I don't know what FFG intended.

I was thinking the same Quarrel.

I think you can reroll the added die.

Reason being that both effects happen during the same phase, but the wording is specific:

Concentrate Fire: Resolve during the "Resolve Attack Effects" step of an attack.

- Dial: Add one attack die to the attack pool . That die must be of a color that is already in the attack pool.

- Token: Reroll one attack die in the attack pool .

Since the die is adding one die to the attack pool , it is now a part of the attack pool, and as such counts as a die in the attack pool that can be rerolled.

As yet, I've found nothing that indicates timing that would contradict that conclusion.

The question is not "Can you reroll the die added by Concentrate Fire?" I think it's quite clear that if you spend both a Concentrate Fire Dial and token you can. The question is "Can I spend a Concentrate Fire Dial, roll, and then spend a Concentrate Fire token to reroll?"

Currently the rules say no because a ship can not resolve the same command more than once per round. You need to declare both expenditures at the same time, or just stick to one of them.

I would agree with that observation.

The question is not "Can you reroll the die added by Concentrate Fire?" I think it's quite clear that if you spend both a Concentrate Fire Dial and token you can. The question is "Can I spend a Concentrate Fire Dial, roll, and then spend a Concentrate Fire token to reroll?"

Currently the rules say no because a ship can not resolve the same command more than once per round. You need to declare both expenditures at the same time, or just stick to one of them.

This is incorrect, they are part of the same expenditure, due to happening at the same timing event. The Dial and Token happen during the Resolve Attack Effects step. You do not spend the Concentrate Fire Dial until AFTER the Roll Attack Dice step.

So while you are right that you can't spend dial, roll, spend token — it's not that it's more expenditures of the same command, it's because you did them in the wrong order. When using the Concentrate Fire command, you will always have rolled first.

Page 4 of Rule Reference

Concentrate Fire: Resolve during the “Resolve Attack Effects” step of an attack.

Page 2 of Rule Reference

1. Declare Target: ...
2. Roll Attack Dice: ...
3. Resolve Attack Effects: ...
4. Spend Defense Tokens: ...
5. Resolve Damage: ...
6. Declare Additional Squadrons: ...

The question is not "Can you reroll the die added by Concentrate Fire?" I think it's quite clear that if you spend both a Concentrate Fire Dial and token you can. The question is "Can I spend a Concentrate Fire Dial, roll, and then spend a Concentrate Fire token to reroll?"

Currently the rules say no because a ship can not resolve the same command more than once per round. You need to declare both expenditures at the same time, or just stick to one of them.

This is incorrect, they are part of the same expenditure, due to happening at the same timing event. The Dial and Token happen during the Resolve Attack Effects step. You do not spend the Concentrate Fire Dial until AFTER the Roll Attack Dice step.

So while you are right that you can't spend dial, roll, spend token — it's not that it's more expenditures of the same command, it's because you did them in the wrong order. When using the Concentrate Fire command, you will always have rolled first.

Page 4 of Rule Reference

Concentrate Fire: Resolve during the “Resolve Attack Effects” step of an attack.

Page 2 of Rule Reference

1. Declare Target: ...
2. Roll Attack Dice: ...
3. Resolve Attack Effects: ...
4. Spend Defense Tokens: ...
5. Resolve Damage: ...
6. Declare Additional Squadrons: ...

I believe he meant:

- Roll your basic dice

- spend Concentrate Fire Dial for an extra die (this resolves a Concentrate Fire Command)

- Roll the Extra Die

- Spend Concentrate Fire Token for a Reroll (this resolves a Concentrate Fire Command a second time)

- Do a Reroll

This, by his and my reading of the rules, is illegal.

Legal would be:

- Roll your basic dice

- Resolve a Concentrate Fire command by spending the Dial and the token.

- Roll an extra die

- Reroll a die (with the last two happening in any desired order)

So you would have to decide on spending both before seeing the result of the first that you spent.

I believe he meant:

- Roll your basic dice

- spend Concentrate Fire Dial for an extra die (this resolves a Concentrate Fire Command)

- Roll the Extra Die

- Spend Concentrate Fire Token for a Reroll (this resolves a Concentrate Fire Command a second time)

- Do a Reroll

This, by his and my reading of the rules, is illegal.

Legal would be:

- Roll your basic dice

- Resolve a Concentrate Fire command by spending the Dial and the token.

- Roll an extra die

- Reroll a die (with the last two happening in any desired order)

So you would have to decide on spending both before seeing the result of the first that you spent.

That is clearer, but I don't agree that spending the Token after rolling the extra die is a second resolution of the Concentrate Fire Command, because you're in the same step of the same phase. In both cases you're in Modify Dice of Resolve Attack Effects .

Where I think it would be illegal would be in a case such as:

- Roll your basic dice

- Spend your Dial, roll an extra die

- Spend accuracy die or dice

- Spend your Token, to reroll a die

I believe he meant:

- Roll your basic dice

- spend Concentrate Fire Dial for an extra die (this resolves a Concentrate Fire Command)

- Roll the Extra Die

- Spend Concentrate Fire Token for a Reroll (this resolves a Concentrate Fire Command a second time)

- Do a Reroll

This, by his and my reading of the rules, is illegal.

Legal would be:

- Roll your basic dice

- Resolve a Concentrate Fire command by spending the Dial and the token.

- Roll an extra die

- Reroll a die (with the last two happening in any desired order)

So you would have to decide on spending both before seeing the result of the first that you spent.

That is clearer, but I don't agree that spending the Token after rolling the extra die is a second resolution of the Concentrate Fire Command, because you're in the same step of the same phase. In both cases you're in Modify Dice of Resolve Attack Effects .

Where I think it would be illegal would be in a case such as:

- Roll your basic dice

- Spend your Dial, roll an extra die

- Spend accuracy die or dice

- Spend your Token, to reroll a die

I agree that it cannot conclusively be decided either way.

Personally I believe "I now have more information than before" concludes the resolution of a command and if I act on that information, then it constitutes a new resolution.

My best case for my reading is RR p3, Commands:

A ship can resolve the effect of a command by spending a command dial or command token with the matching icon at the appropriate time. The effect of the command is based on which component was spent

So, spending a token triggers the resolution of the Command. The resolution then has an effect.

If spending a token or dial triggers the resolution of a command, then executing the effect concludes the command.

If I spend the Dial, then I resolve the effect of the command. The effect I resolve is "Roll an extra die". After this effect is resolved, the command is ended.

Spending a token now would initiate a new resolution of the Command.

Otherwise it would retroactively change the effect of the command that I have already begun to resolve/completely resolved.

Page 4 then states

A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the command.

The first sentence strongly implies "at the same time", but I accept that that is debatable.

If I spend both a command dial and a command token I resolve the effect of a command that has the effect "Roll an extra die and reroll one die".

Considering that there is no "may" here, I may even make the reroll mandatory with this expenditure.

All of that said:

I do believe my reading is correct and RAW, BUT I accept that the intention may be something else and I think it is something worthy of an FAQ entry.

All of that said:

I do believe my reading is correct and RAW, BUT I accept that the intention may be something else and I think it is something worthy of an FAQ entry.

Taking the simple is better here.

Roll

Add Die from Dial

Decide ReRoll With Token

As it is all the same step, rules say I get to choose order.

All one Action until FAQ.

Dont have it infront of me, but isn't "Add" defined as actually rolling a dice into the attack pool? I remember it as you resolve each action independently, thus, when you go to spend the token (Reroll) the new die from the Add action has already been rolled. I don't have the reference infront of me, though.