then it's 50% chance of some bad happening versus 12.5% chance of "oh well, I guess I get to eat ****"

You have an equal chance to get a crit when landing on an asteroid as you do debris fields.

I agree with the sentiment. It's like a pilot ability that could roll 8 red dice if he rolled 1 crit or something.

Uh... Could you explain what you mean by that?

Game mechanics based on very unlikely but large-impact abilities are not very fun in most any game.

Okay, now I understand. It was the hyperbole that got me confused.

That being said, this doesn't feel that different from asteroids to me.

Asteroid: 50% chance something bad happens when you fly over it. 12.5% of the time, that something is extra bad.

Debris Field: 100% chance something bad happens when you fly over it. 12.5% of the time, that something is extra bad.

Fits together nicely to me.

But depending on positioning whatnot the stress might have zero impact. So then you're just left with 12.5% chance of terrible.

But depending on positioning whatnot the stress might have zero impact. So then you're just left with 12.5% chance of terrible.

The same can be said of Asteroids, but with a 50% chance of something bad.

But depending on positioning whatnot the stress might have zero impact. So then you're just left with 12.5% chance of terrible.

The same can be said of Asteroids, but with a 50% chance of something bad.

Right, ergo, it's more "dicey".

That is, with asteroids, running over them is very nearly always a bad idea - 50/50 odds is not good. You may still do it intentionally because the stakes are that high - but you still do it expecting to have to deal with something bad.

Not so with debris - odds favor you getting over it without damage, so theoretically it should be more navigable than asteroids. Only, 1/8 of the time...it's not.

That's just so...random and inconsistent.

I agree with the sentiment. It's like a pilot ability that could roll 8 red dice if he rolled 1 crit or something.

Uh... Could you explain what you mean by that?

Game mechanics based on very unlikely but large-impact abilities are not very fun in most any game.

Okay, now I understand. It was the hyperbole that got me confused.

That being said, this doesn't feel that different from asteroids to me.

Asteroid: 50% chance something bad happens when you fly over it. 12.5% of the time, that something is extra bad.

Debris Field: 100% chance something bad happens when you fly over it. 12.5% of the time, that something is extra bad.

Fits together nicely to me.

But depending on positioning whatnot the stress might have zero impact. So then you're just left with 12.5% chance of terrible.

A) Crits are not always terrible. Sometimes they do absolutely nothing. Other times they have a trivial effect. Also, shields are a thing.

B) I'd argue the fact you can avoid some of the downside of the debris field with careful positioning is a good thing, since it can allow for unexpected tactics if you're clever.

no, both asteroids and debris have 100% chance of something bad happening (action denial or stress), the asteroids can merely be mitigated by sensors or some commonly appreciated upgrades (fcs, whisper, ACD)

then it's 50% chance of some bad happening versus 12.5% chance of "oh well, I guess I get to eat ****"

Not true if you are red-lining it (k-turns) over an asteroid, you only have the 50% of taking damage because the action denial doesn't matter.

That's just so...random and inconsistent.

No, it's the same amount of random it always was. You have a random chance of taking damage. The odds are less, but that doesn't change how random it is.

This also makes sense, you are flying through a debris field, in which you may or may not hit anything. As opposed to an asteroid, which should almost always be bad.

But getting a stress before your perform action step is always bad, even if you're Keyan, because unless you're Tycho, you've lost your action. Plus there's other downsides to having stress, like getting shot with an Ion when you have one.

So no, Debris fields, don't actually make X-Wing any more random or luck based then asteroids do.

I would like debris tokens even more if we started with six rocks but placed the corresponding debris field under a destroyed ship's base before removing it from play. Of course, this could get insane for a falcon or decimator kill (whose debris tokens don't presently exist), but it sure would be a fun trophy token to hand out in tournament kits! :-)

This could spiral out of control really fast though...imagine a swarmy list as it goes down...or playing with more than 100 pts...or an epic game?

It would turn into too much clutter.

That's just so...random and inconsistent.

No, it's the same amount of random it always was. You have a random chance of taking damage. The odds are less, but that doesn't change how random it is.

This also makes sense, you are flying through a debris field, in which you may or may not hit anything. As opposed to an asteroid, which should almost always be bad.

But getting a stress before your perform action step is always bad, even if you're Keyan, because unless you're Tycho, you've lost your action. Plus there's other downsides to having stress, like getting shot with an Ion when you have one.

So no, Debris fields, don't actually make X-Wing any more random or luck based then asteroids do.

You lose an action no whenever you fly through a debris cloud or asteroid, because you lose your action flying through obstacles. (AKA, Tycho would lose actions flying through or unto either of them, for example.)

You lose an action no whenever you fly through a debris cloud or asteroid

No you don't.

You replace everything in the core rules starting with the header "Moving into and through obstacles" with what is on that card. That means you do what the card for Debris Field says rather than what's written in the core rules.

Otherwise the way some people seem to read it, you should take a stress, plus lose your action, roll 2 dice, and take whatever damage is on one, and a crit from the other, then you can both attack and not attack...

You lose an action no whenever you fly through a debris cloud or asteroid

No you don't.

You replace everything in the core rules starting with the header "Moving into and through obstacles" with what is on that card. That means you do what the card for Debris Field says rather than what's written in the core rules.

Otherwise the way some people seem to read it, you should take a stress, plus lose your action, roll 2 dice, and take whatever damage is on one, and a crit from the other, then you can both attack and not attack...

Yeah, I coming back to say that after seeing it in the other thread.

I have a hard time understanding the entire concept of this thread. This is a game involving chance, things will always be 'dicey' on some level, debris field just less so in terms of statistical probability. Personally the biggest problem I have with debris fields is their irregular shape. Asteroids are in general quite round so it's fairly easy to guess your flightpath when doing turns and banks in close proximity to them. The same cannot quite be said about debris fields

I would like debris tokens even more if we started with six rocks but placed the corresponding debris field under a destroyed ship's base before removing it from play. Of course, this could get insane for a falcon or decimator kill (whose debris tokens don't presently exist), but it sure would be a fun trophy token to hand out in tournament kits! :-)

This could spiral out of control really fast though...imagine a swarmy list as it goes down...or playing with more than 100 pts...or an epic game?

It would turn into too much clutter.

I've done it... it's hilariously fun and really stupid at the same time.

You can still take a crit from Asteroids. So for asteroids more chance for damage, no action and if your base overlaps you can't shoot. Debris clouds cancels actions with stress less chance for damage and you can still shoot if the base is overlapping.

I think Debris are "Safer" than asteroids as far a penalties for overlapping goes. The only thing that a debris cloud does that is worse than rocks other than take up a few more square millimeters is the chance to stack stress if you are doing red maneuvers or already have a stress token.

Had a game where my opponent clipped a debris field with a Interceptor, which made him stressed, which meant he couldn't push the limit. It died. Same result if he had clipped a asteroid. Had it of been a asteroid, he most likely would of passed it as it was the awkward shape of the field that caught him out.

I find people underestimate the stress and zero actions of debris tokens and simply ignore them. If you land on one you can still shoot, sure that is great but you get a stress, and when moving off them if your template overlaps the debris, you gain another. Not having actions two turns in a row is crippling for most Imperial fighters and Phantoms especially if the unmodified attack dice you just rolled didn't pay off enough.

I like their inclusion and hope we see different variations of rocks and debris in coming expansions.

But depending on positioning whatnot the stress might have zero impact. So then you're just left with 12.5% chance of terrible.

The same can be said of Asteroids, but with a 50% chance of something bad.

Right, ergo, it's more "dicey".

That is, with asteroids, running over them is very nearly always a bad idea - 50/50 odds is not good. You may still do it intentionally because the stakes are that high - but you still do it expecting to have to deal with something bad.

Not so with debris - odds favor you getting over it without damage, so theoretically it should be more navigable than asteroids. Only, 1/8 of the time...it's not.

That's just so...random and inconsistent.

It really, really depends on the ship though. For some ships, losing their actions is much, much worse than not being able to attack. And I'm not just talking the base action, but losing all the fun little actions certain ships can perform throughout a turn. Some ships just won't care, sure. But, guys like Fel or the Phantoms, they will really care.

Had a game where my opponent clipped a debris field with a Interceptor, which made him stressed, which meant he couldn't push the limit. It died. Same result if he had clipped a asteroid. Had it of been a asteroid, he most likely would of passed it as it was the awkward shape of the field that caught him out.

I find people underestimate the stress and zero actions of debris tokens and simply ignore them. If you land on one you can still shoot, sure that is great but you get a stress, and when moving off them if your template overlaps the debris, you gain another. Not having actions two turns in a row is crippling for most Imperial fighters and Phantoms especially if the unmodified attack dice you just rolled didn't pay off enough.

I like their inclusion and hope we see different variations of rocks and debris in coming expansions.

Eh... I guess people are just going to have to learn to look at the edges of an obstacle and not the center of it.

I got to play a couple of games last night with Debris, I really like how big and weird the shapes are and how much the interact with the game, the spikey bits potruding from them can really mess up your flight plan if you don't plan ahead.

Also had the chance to fly Super Dash with 5 Debris clouds on the table... oh baby, it's like falling in love all over again. Dash can just roll around the whole map and not care where he ends up, where as with rocks you had to actually think about where your final position was going to be so you could dodge arcs and still be able to shoot.