Something that is a considerable difference between debris fields and asteroids is how damage is performed.

With asteroids, you have a 50/50 chance of taking damage when you run over them, and sometimes that is a crit.

With debris fields, you almost certainly won't take damage when flying through them...except 1/8 of the time, you take a crit.

Does it seem to anyone else that this really amps up the 'diceyness' of the game? That is - if you run over an asteroid, sure you still have the same odds of taking a crit as a debris field, but the whole 'running over an asteroid' this is GENERALLY a bad idea in any case. 50/50 chance of taking damage means you are making a risky maneuver, and it just might be extremely bad for you sometimes...but it is never a safe or good idea; doing something at 50/50 odds is really pushing your luck.

With a debris field, though, you are very nearly guaranteed to take no damage at all...I mean, 7/8 odds of escaping unscathed are pretty good odds. Of course, if you do take damage, it's very rough damage. Consider a pilot like Soontir - flying through a debris field, 7 times out of 8 he just gets better (focused) and no ill effect. 1 time out of 8, he gets crippled and potentially killed (having any prior damage at all paired with a 'direct hit')...

I dunno, I guess the mechanic of 'roll a dice and see if you lose the game on a 1/8 chance' just feels...more random than usual for X-Wing. Especially given how many pilots LIKE stress - 'roll a dice, 7/8 chance you improve your situation, 1/8 chance a possibly-game-ending event occurs'. VERY 'dicey', that!

Soontir's a very fringy case, as he's the one of the few who actually benefits from stress. Aggressors or other action-dependent ships generally want to keep these things as far away from them as possible. Same goes for most Y-Wings, who don't really fear asteroids, but can't shed stress well at all.

A low chance of a rather bad thing happening with guaranteed stress vs. the same chance of that bad thing happening plus more stuff that is guaranteed/likely to happen is dicey?

If you don't want to trust the fate of your ships to a roll of a die, I suggest that you learn to fly in all the places where the obstacles are not.

I think soontir wants to stay away from debris fields altogether. Sure, he gets a focus from the stress, but completely loses all other actions, including any positioning abilities, which are almost required. Only three ships like the debris fields: Dash, Tycho and Keyan. For the rest, you trade a chance at damage for a stress. Not usually a good trade.

You still take Crit damage if you roll one going through/on an asteroid...

You know what's dicey?

Green octahedrons. Those things are shady as ****.

It really depends. Some ships won't care about the stress. Things like Phantoms will hate debris. I think you undervaluing the power of a guaranteed stress on some builds.

Debris fields are just weird. I guess it spices up 6-obstacle deathmatch, but it sort of makes obstacles easier to manage. I guess lessening the "risk" of taking debris fields over asteroids to the table is that it would be less of a nuisance to you, but also at the cost of it being less of a nuisance to your opponent as well, changing up flight strategies a bit.

I can see lists running large base ships or swarms taking debris fields over rocks because of that benefit. And Dash still doesn't care, so he'll most likely still take rocks.

And I'll still be taking rocks to screw over IGs and Swarms and Phantoms and Han's and...

Debris fields are just weird. I guess it spices up 6-obstacle deathmatch, but it sort of makes obstacles easier to manage. I guess lessening the "risk" of taking debris fields over asteroids to the table is that it would be less of a nuisance to you, but also at the cost of it being less of a nuisance to your opponent as well, changing up flight strategies a bit.

I can see lists running large base ships or swarms taking debris fields over rocks because of that benefit. And Dash still doesn't care, so he'll most likely still take rocks.

And I'll still be taking rocks to screw over IGs and Swarms and Phantoms and Han's and...

But, Debris is what you take to screw over Phantoms. Stress means they can't use ACD.

yeah, I don't like the critical hit bit

it could result in some absolute bull when probability would say otherwise

the stress mechanic is 100% fine, though. It only seems less devastating than asteroids, but in reality it depends on the ship and the steepest penalty of asteroids (no shooting when you land on them) is exchanged for larger obstruction size

A low chance of a rather bad thing happening with guaranteed stress vs. the same chance of that bad thing happening plus more stuff that is guaranteed/likely to happen is dicey?

Sure, but stress is not always "bad", and even when it is not desirable, it isn't that hard to shed. It's not good, but it's not like taking damage or taking crits.

yeah, I don't like the critical hit bit

it could result in some absolute bull when probability would say otherwise

the stress mechanic is 100% fine, though

Yeah, the stress mechanic is fine, I don't have any issue with that. And 'guaranteed stress' vs the 50/50 odds of damage from asteroids is a nice balancing point.

But it's that "when probability would say otherwise" crit-or-nothing damage result that is a bit annoying in how extreme it makes the results for crossing a debris field.

I could think of a number of ways to make debris unique without using that extreme result swing:

• Rather than just getting one 'stress' token for crossing a debris field, you get two, but there is no possibility of damage to the ship
• Roll attack dice for damage when crossing a debris field equal to your current speed, but let the ship roll its evade dice (unmodifiable) against the damage - damage results applied as per usual with hits and crits taking effect
• Roll 1 attack dice when crossing debris field, ignore all results except 'crit', which just deals one face-down damage card

...etc. LOTS of possible options that would not involve the crazy 'swinginess' of a 1/8 crit result vs 7/8 nothing.

I think soontir wants to stay away from debris fields altogether. Sure, he gets a focus from the stress, but completely loses all other actions, including any positioning abilities, which are almost required. Only three ships like the debris fields: Dash, Tycho and Keyan. For the rest, you trade a chance at damage for a stress. Not usually a good trade.

Out of those 3 only Keyan actually likes it...the other 2 just don't care.

I played the new rules this weekend where each player brings three of their own unique asteroids and debris fields. I took the largest rock and two largest debris fields because it made flying difficult for large ships. The stress addition was great and it did make flying more challenging. Thus, I'm a fan of the rule change and like the new strategy dynamics it utilizes.

Regarding helping certain ships, I think it is rare and very situational. For example, I would certainly k-turn Soontir on the last round over a debris field if it helped my odds of victory - double stress that won't come into play for two focus and 1/8 chance of a crit if I had shield or all three hull left, against an opponent whose arc I could escape. But other ships and situations... probably not.

Stress can be a big problem in the right circumstances. If you are good, you can punish a player running over the debris when you know he can't take red maneuvers. For most ships clearing with a green limits you to 3 or 4 moves. Less options means you have less "good" options.

yeah, I don't like the critical hit bit

it could result in some absolute bull when probability would say otherwise

the stress mechanic is 100% fine, though. It only seems less devastating than asteroids, but in reality it depends on the ship and the steepest penalty of asteroids (no shooting when you land on them) is exchanged for larger obstruction size

You're kind of falling into the gambler's fallacy here. Probability says nothing except the relative likelyhood. For that matter, a ship getting hit by 2 crits in a row is within normal results, if I recall my statistics.

So, I guess that was my roundabout way of saying I don't see a problem with a 1-in-8 chance of something bad happening.

I agree with the sentiment. It's like a pilot ability that could roll 8 red dice if he rolled 1 crit or something.

But I think the number of ships it really affects is low, and most of them don't want the stress anyways.

I agree with the sentiment. It's like a pilot ability that could roll 8 red dice if he rolled 1 crit or something.

Uh... Could you explain what you mean by that?

Debris Fields are less punishing than asteroids, which is good for the newer players that struggle to stay off of obstacles, and good for the very skilled players that know how to do cost/benefit analysis on when it is strategically correct to fly through an obstacle, but bad for the mediocre players that live and die by the thought that a good move could never involve flying through an obstacle.

I feel like Debris Fields will be much more interactive then asteroids are, they're wider footprint means more opportunities to use them as cover and being able to shoot on them and only 1/8 damage means more possibilities for where to fly your ship, which means they will have more of an impact on the game then just "don't ever land your ship here".

I would like debris tokens even more if we started with six rocks but placed the corresponding debris field under a destroyed ship's base before removing it from play. Of course, this could get insane for a falcon or decimator kill (whose debris tokens don't presently exist), but it sure would be a fun trophy token to hand out in tournament kits! :-)

I agree with the sentiment. It's like a pilot ability that could roll 8 red dice if he rolled 1 crit or something.

Uh... Could you explain what you mean by that?

Game mechanics based on very unlikely but large-impact abilities are not very fun in most any game.

I agree with the sentiment. It's like a pilot ability that could roll 8 red dice if he rolled 1 crit or something.

Uh... Could you explain what you mean by that?

Game mechanics based on very unlikely but large-impact abilities are not very fun in most any game.

Okay, now I understand. It was the hyperbole that got me confused.

That being said, this doesn't feel that different from asteroids to me.

Asteroid: 50% chance something bad happens when you fly over it. 12.5% of the time, that something is extra bad.

Debris Field: 100% chance something bad happens when you fly over it. 12.5% of the time, that something is extra bad.

Fits together nicely to me.

I have to admit I don't get the OP's point.

How is a 1/8 chance any more or less dicey than a 50/50 chance? The odds are of course different, but they are still just that, odds.

Debris fields are effectively less painful obstacles then Asteroids, but they're also larger. But they do nothing to change how much random chance effects the game.

Soontir's a very fringy case, as he's the one of the few who actually benefits from stress. Aggressors or other action-dependent ships generally want to keep these things as far away from them as possible. Same goes for most Y-Wings, who don't really fear asteroids, but can't shed stress well at all.

Building action-dependent 88s is unnecessary, many of the best performing 88s lists I've seen rely on passive abilities (IG-88B, Predator, FCS, etc.) to keep them productive even when stressed, blocked, etc. So if you play dual Aggressors, particularly of the don't care about stress all that much variety, then take debris clouds. When you screw up a K-turn or S-loop it won't cost you a shot.

If you take a two ship list that doesn't mind stress once in a while, and fears any turns where you're losing 50% of your offense due to a rock, take the debris clouds.

I agree with the sentiment. It's like a pilot ability that could roll 8 red dice if he rolled 1 crit or something.

Uh... Could you explain what you mean by that?

Game mechanics based on very unlikely but large-impact abilities are not very fun in most any game.

Okay, now I understand. It was the hyperbole that got me confused.

That being said, this doesn't feel that different from asteroids to me.

Asteroid: 50% chance something bad happens when you fly over it. 12.5% of the time, that something is extra bad.

Debris Field: 100% chance something bad happens when you fly over it. 12.5% of the time, that something is extra bad.

Fits together nicely to me.

no, both asteroids and debris have 100% chance of something bad happening (action denial or stress), the asteroids can merely be mitigated by sensors or some commonly appreciated upgrades (fcs, whisper, ACD)

then it's 50% chance of some bad happening versus 12.5% chance of "oh well, I guess I get to eat ****"