Challenge or Challenges phase(s) and cancelling triggered effects with Besiegers

By BananaPants2, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

I have Besiegers of Dorne, which says "Cancel the first effect triggered during the first challenge initiated each phase."

I'm a bit confused about challenge phase or phases.

Does the round have one challenge phase, or does each player have one?

What happens if this character cancels one of the Honor Guards, are they discarded or returned to hand?

Thanks for your help.

Bananapants said:

I'm a bit confused about challenge phase or phases.

Does the round have one challenge phase, or does each player have one?

There is only one challenge phase each round. Players take turns as the "Active Player" in a single phase. The Active Player may initiate up to three challenges, one of each type (assuming no card effects allowing for additional challenges), then passes the role of "Active Player" to the next player.

The Besiegers will automatically cancel the first effect triggered during the first challenge each phase, regardless of who initiated the challenge, or triggered the effect. The end result of this card is that usually, no effects are triggered until the second challenge of the phase.

Now, one thing to note about the card is that it does not specify that the cancel happens during the first challenge initiated during the Challenge phase. So the cancel effect will apply if a challenge is initiated in a phase other than the Challenge phase, too (like the Epic phase created by the "Epic Battle" event cards).

Bananapants said:

What happens if this character cancels one of the Honor Guards, are they discarded or returned to hand?

The effect of the Honor Guards puts them into play from your hand. Unlike an event card, which has to be played from hand, the Honor Guards are considered to be triggered from hand. So if their effect is canceled, they never actually leave your hand. Thus, they would not be discarded and could simply be triggered a second time.

Ok, so an Honor Guard can remove the Besiegers ability, effectively.

Anything triggered from the hand that is not an event does not act like an event, if I understand correctly.

This is interesting, and good to know. I like the Besiegers a lot, it's a cool card.

Bananapants said:

Anything triggered from the hand that is not an event does not act like an event, if I understand correctly.

Well, it is probably more accurate to say that events have an "understood" or "implied" cost to play of leaving your hand because of the mechanics of playing them. That is why canceled events are discarded - they must leave your hand as part of their initiation. Non-event cards that are triggered from your hand do not share this "cost" and do not technically leave your hand until their effect is resolved. Canceling the effects therefore cancels the part where they leave your hand.

When an effect is canceled, the initiation still happens (i.e., costs are paid), but the resolution does not. For events, leaving your hand is part of initiation, but for non-events triggered from your hand (which are always of the "put into play" variety), leaving your hand is part of resolution.