Hi all!

I have two questions:

1) I want to be sure we use Clue tokens properly. We (2 players) have final battle with the Ancient One and I have 10 Clue tokens and the Skill Fight. I throw 4 dice for Fight check and I have one success. Now I spend one Clue token and throw 2 dice (because of the Skill). There are two successes so I have three successes in total. This can go on until I spend all my Clue tokens and it gives me possiblity of 20 hits to the Ancient One just with Clue tokens. Is this right or totally wrong?

2) Let's have this situation - 2 players are playing with the Dunwich Horror expansion that means maximum of 5 monsters in Arkham. There are 3 gates in Arkham + 3 monsters (1 on the 1. gate, 1 on the 2. gate and 1 in the streets which leaves the 3. gate empty) and 1 gate in Dunwich (Wizard's Hill) + 1 monster (in the streets, the gate is empty). Now new gate opens on the Wizard's Hill which causes the monster surge. We distributed 4 monsters like this: the first monster went on the gate on the Wizard's Hill, the second monster went on the empty gate in Arkham, the third monster went again on the gate on the Wizard's Hill (because most monsters should be on the gate where the monster surge occured - Arkham rules) and the last monster went on randomly chosen gate in Arkham (because there are still only four monsters in Arkham). Again is this right or we played it wrong?

I apologize for my English (especially articles). Thanks for any answer.

Herald said:

It's right (according to the rules) and also totally wrong (as in making a mockery of the game) .

Herald said:

3 gates in Arkham + 1 in Dunwich, surge 4 monsters, so 1 per gate. Dunwich one of course normally, 2 go to Arkham on gates decided before fishing each monster out of the cup, this hits monster limit, 4th one to Outskirts. It's not most monsters to surging gate, it's that the surging gate is the max each gate can receive.

"When placing monsters, they should be divided as evenly
as possible among the open gates, with no gate having more
monsters placed on it than the gate where the monster surge
occurred this turn." (FAQ, p. 2)

Ah oh, I think we are distributing monsters wrong. Example: playing only with Arkham, 2 players, 4 open gates, 2 with one monster, 2 empty, one monster in the streets.

1) Monster surge occurs on gate with one monster.

2) Monster surge occurs on empty gate.

Can you tell me how to distribute new monsters?

As for Clue tokens I think you are right about making a mockery of the game because we defeated Ithaqua practically only with Clue tokens (I think we had eight or nine). On the other hand we understand Clue tokens as something we know about all those mysteries which are going on in Arkham including the ways how to defeat the Ancient One.

Herald said:

I think you're taking into account monsters already on each gate, which for monster surges (in terms of allocating them) is utterly irrelevant. 4 gates open, surge is 4 monsters, 1 for each gate. Now, 2 players, limit is 5 and before the surge there are 3 monsters. First monster is drawn and placed on the surging gate (or first player picks if the surge is the result of a non-gate Mythos), second monster on gate X (first player decides), final 2 go to Outskirts because monster limit is full.

Herald said:

Only time I have 5+ Clues in final combat is if the GOO woke up while an investigator was in the OWs, trying to make it back to Arkham to seal a gate (or sitting on a gate, having failed to close/seal).

Be careful when listening to Dam. He's very wise when clarifying rules and game mechanics--he nailed the monster surge mechanic up there--but when he veers into his personal opinions, they tend to hit with a blunt THWACK. In other words, not all of us believe in the "mockery to the game". Or that Vincent sucks.

Dam, stop terrorizing the players who haven't played 200+ games. (I know, I know..."But how are they going to learn?!")

jgt7771 said:

BTW, only played game #88 today ! 72 games between June - December, then a 6-month hiatus, back into the fray with IH (so that 2 rotations of the IH GOOs done).

jgt7771, you're not against the whole Clue-Shotgunning crap ?

And Vincent totally sucks. Even if he got lucky in a recent game that was the reason Cthugha was sealed and not lost against in final combat.

BTW, only played game #88 today ! 72 games between June - December, then a 6-month hiatus, back into the fray with IH (so that 2 rotations of the IH GOOs done).

I say yours is the most disciplined approach to this game EVER. And perhaps more than a little frightening. Which I suppose matches this game.

jgt7771, you're not against the whole Clue-Shotgunning crap?

Well, of course I am...but there's got to be a middle ground! For me, this issue is all about INTENT.

We all started with the same usage of Clues in the Final Battle, and then someone bragged about the Joe-Mandy-Shotgun-Fight Skill-56-dice-one-shot-Yig-Corpse, and now it was suddenly a THING. Whoever it was didn't do anything WRONG...he happened to find a fortunate series of conditions that allowed an extraordinary alchemy. And these kinds of things keep popping up all the time: Michael/Harvey-Healing Stone-Yig Crumple, Kate-Jacqueline-Arcane Insight-No Gate, Pete-Daisy-Livre D'Ivon-Spell Romp, Ryu-Hadoken-at-the-screenside, etc. They are natural combos of the game, and there isn't anything legally preventing them. BUT...if that's how you win your tournaments, by cheesing your opponent with fireballs and Black Lotus Channels...if you spend the game forsaking gate seals in order to gather guns and ammo and wake up Hastur with a -1 modifier...then I hope you're proud of yourself. Good luck trying to do it without the cheese, because you aren't learning anything.

I don't Clue-Shotgun, but that term only means I don't spend the game trying to find Clues and a Shotgun. If I end up in a Final Battle with Clues and a Shotgun...I'm frakkin' using them. It has nothing to do with the game...it has to do with the goo inside my head. And I won't stop anyone from doing whatever with their own goo, except make it clear that I...we...disapprove and why.

And Vincent totally sucks. Even if he got lucky in a recent game that was the reason Cthugha was sealed and not lost against in final combat.

Frankly, that is its own comment. Thanks!

Nevertheless, I like Kevins new rule for clue tokens in final battle.

Even though it might never come to the point where you find yourself in final battle with more clue tokens to spend than seals on the board, it gives your head another direction.

A player of my group happend to be totally into the "hey, he's almost awake, let's get the last clue tokens together and give him a warm welcome"-tactic, and sadly, it often worked. But since doesn't seem to be that great an option anymore, we now keep on attempting to seal the last gates, no matter how hopeless it may seem, just as it should be.

Dam said:

I'm not sure if this is strictly true... there is one way in which monsters already on gates do apply. Don't you have to ensure, when distributing monsters "as evenly as possible", that no gate ends up with more monsters than the surging gate? Depending on what monsters are already on the board, this can produce some truly bizarre placements. (I might be wrong about this, does anyone know? I can't check right now).

thecorinthian said:

No, the point is the monsters from the SURGE are first allocated as evenly as possible, at which point monsters already on the board makes 0 difference. Only once you've allocated them and start the actual drawing from the cup do things like monster limit kick in.

Say there are 5 open gates. Gate #1 is the one that surges. Surge will produce 5 monsters. Let's say monster limit is 5. Clearly the allocation is 1 per gate or as evenly as possible. Gate #1 also has 4 monsters on it already, with other gates having 0. First monster goes on Gate #1, since that surges, which also fills up the monster limit. Other 4 monsters go to the Outskirts, leaving Gate #1 with 5 monsters and the others still with 0 monsters.

"When placing monsters, they should be divided as evenly
as possible among the open gates, with no gate having more
monsters placed on it than the gate where the monster surge
occurred this turn." (p. 9)

(emphasis added)

The way it's worded and the way you say it are vastly different. Rules refer to monsters placed from the surge only (specifically only talk about placing the monsters from the surge), while the wording "ends up" would take into account monsters already on gate(s).

OK, so I have only to be careful that no gate has (at the end of distributing monsters from surge) more monsters than surging gate, right?

What is the new rule for the final battle or where can I find it?

I forget where it is, but it is you can't spend more clue tokens per round than there are seals on the board. It is a proposed house rule by KevinW.

Herald said:

Welcome to the Carnival, Herald!

Here's the thread with the new suggested House Rule:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=5&efcid=1&efidt=148484

jgt7771 said:

Thanks for the link!