Hello, I understand it a little. Me (as overlord) may force one hero to attack the others or himself....but Can I use the surges which he rolled for abillity of weapon? Or to get some threat? And can I force him to use his other items? (for example Beastman fetish which give me opportunity to reroll one single die, or rune which gives some free surge etc.) And does the powers works on that atack (DOOM! for example)?

Thank you for answer and apologize for my english:)

From the FAQ:

Q: When the overlord is controlling a hero through “Dark Charm,” who decides how to spend the surges and power dice? Can the overlord move the character and attack, or just make a single attack without moving? What if the Dark Charmed character has an Aim or Dodge order? Who decides whether defensive abilities such as shields and Ghost Armor are used?

A: The overlord controls the hero for that attack, including the hero’s use of surges and power dice. The overlord may also play cards such as “Aim” with the attack. However, the overlord player cannot move the character, or force the hero to spend fatigue to add to the attack. The overlord may not force the character to use any orders. The hero retains control of any of her defensive options such as shields or Ghost Armor.

Thanks, I understand but what about the "other" items? like beastman fetish? or some ring or enything else with free surge? It isn´t defense, skill or order so can overlord force hero to use them for that attack? By the way, I think that dark charm for only one treachery is prety cheap.

jerry1989 said:

Beastman Fetish let's you reroll a dice right? Basically the same as Aim, so if the OL can do it with Aim there is no reason he can't do it with the Beastman Fetish (unless it requires the spending of fatigue, I can't remember). Free surges from abilites, equipment, etc are all spent by the OL for that attack.

Devil's advocate: Beastman Fetish lets you reroll a die "on your turn". I don't believe there is a clear ruling as to whether this would allow the OL access to this or not. Perhaps you could say that because a DC'd hero treats monsters as friendly that it is now the OL's turn with access to the BF because the card now applies to the OL (which allows him to reroll on his turn), but I can see that being argued either way (must be the hero's turn, whatever, etc, blah dee blah).

pinkymadigan said:

More than likely you are right. I forgot the FAQ was talking about the Aim card not the order .

Big Remy said:

Ha, I don't know, I just know how some heroes would argue. I personally feel that as long as the OL isn't exhausting anything/using a resource up it probably should be okay. But like I said, the wording is open to some interpretation.

jerry1989 said:

What do you mean by "one treachery"? are you referring to threat cost (8) or threat value (2)??

I'm confused now

Shmoozer said:

Neither. The treachery cost is the middle value. The Dark Charm that comes with the base game will not have it. However, there is a second Dark Charm that can be purchased by the OL for one trap treachery. It came in one of the first two expansions (WoD or AoD).

edroz said:

Aaah thanks for the clarification! i guess it will be a bit longer before we will start with our first expansion (WoD), so no need to worry about that just yet!

Big Remy said:

Of course, you did just quote a ruling that specifically said the overlord can't use a hero's aim order...

Antistone said:

Yeah I know. I'm sadly fumbling this one

Big Remy said:

During a recent session an additional question came up, which neither the rules nor FAQ seemed to fully answer. If an overlord uses Dark Charm on a hero, and the hero successfully hits himself but has a dodge order placed, may the hero force the overlord to reroll the attack?

Thank you,

Vorth

IMO clearly yes.

FAQ pg 5 (2nd column, there are DC questions in both columns)
Q: When the overlord is controlling a hero through “Dark Charm,” who decides how to spend the surges and power dice? Can the overlord move the character and attack, or just make a single attack without moving? What if the Dark Charmed character has an Aim or Dodge order? Who decides whether defensive abilities such as shields and Ghost Armor are used?
A: The overlord controls the hero for that attack, including the hero’s use of surges and power dice. The overlord may also play cards such as “Aim” with the attack. However, the overlord player cannot move the character, or force the hero to spend fatigue to add to the attack. The overlord may not force the character to use any orders . The hero retains control of any of her defensive options such as shields or Ghost Armor.

There are two hints here. First, the OL may not force the hero to use any orders - which implies that the hero keeps control and options on the use of any orders. Second, the hero explicitly retains control of her defensive options. Dodge order is a defensive option, even though it is not listed ('such as' indicates examples rather than a comprehensive listing).

My two cents: Anyone that uses Dark Charm against a hero with a dodge order is wasting his resources.

And to add fuel to the fire: this weekend I added two damage to my dark charm attack via Trapmaster.

It felt good.

Corbon said:

Corbon said:

Thanks for the prompt reply. We ended up leaning in that direction as well, though of course clearer rules would be preferred. It seems to be pretty close to even in how the text can be interpreted, but that is true for so much in this otherwise awesome game.

The counter argument when we were talking about it went like this:

The Ol may not force the hero to use any orders, not because the player retains control of them, but so the overlord cannot "waste" them or take advantage of Aim. In this interpretation, the OL could have control of these actions based off the card, but the FAQ clarifies the OL cannot in fact use them. It isn't clear that the player retains control over these actions during the use of dark charm.

Regarding the defensive options, again it can be implied the hero can use defensive options, but it isn't clear if a dodge order is a defensive option. Unfortunately the FAQ only lists items as defensive options, so it can just as easily be implied that "items such as" are the only options considered defensive.

Playing an aim card with the attack seems the easiest way of making it a moot point.

Thank you,

Vorth