I know I'm relatively new to the forums, and to the game but why does there seem to be so much hate for Kingsport? I've seen criticisms of BGotW and can understand them (though if I'm offered the chance to join the cult I do. I don't own KH, primarily because of the comments I've seen here about it breaking AH, but am considering getting it for completeness sake (and the epic battle stuff.)

So that's my question, but I figured I'd leave the title vague so that others can chime in with their own.

seang said:

Theme: Why does activity in Kingsport cause rifts to open in Arkham?

Boring: It seems the authors discovered what "delay" means. The worst thing that can happen in an early game is to be sent to the High House on the Hill. Now the investigator climbs down the hill for three turns and is usually delayed once on the way down.

Other encounters either have lots of "no encounters this turn" or more delay.

There's hardly ever a monster in Kingsport and the monsters don't even count against the monster limit, so there's no reason to even bother with them (except for the trophies).

Two of the investigators (Daisy and Wendy) are over strong, though this is really a minor point.

There's just no there, there in Kingsport. It's not that bad of place to visit and I wouldn't want to live there. It's a nice place, if you want to to have some encounters without a lot of danger. However the encounters soon become repetitious.

It's inspiration, Marblehead, MA, would be an nice place to live however.

On the other hand, there's some really terrible Old Ones (that have little or nothing to do with Kingsport) and there's the Epic Battle cards (that have little or nothing to do with Kingsport) for those who like final battles.

I hear there are some rules issues too.

I've played the KP&DH combination twice and the IH&DH twice.

And i actually prefer the Kingsport so far. I think that this is really a question of play style. I like Kingsport because we usually play with 5-6 players and my group seems to enjoy the chaos of lots of monsters (which Kingsport lend) Some players find monsters to be an Annoyance, and prefer the encounters... instead of being stuck in the streets.

In both KP games we played, kingsport Always became a factor, and we had to try and close rifts or do something to deal with them. It was pretty chaotic and fun. Only 1 of my 2 IH games required the deep one rising track to be dealth with. The only affect that the board had in my last game was requiring one investigator to go seal a gate early on in the game.

I probably haven't played enough games to really get a feel for either way. I'd like to try a game with BOTH but the kitchen table isn't big enough

Put i expect to use KP in my next game

One thing to note, For the Rifts we use a house rule that the rift starts on the Gate of the mytho's card that caused it to open. (so you see rifts moving around arkham or dunwich. Otherwise there is not a lot of impetus to deal with Kingsport (like mageith said)

Lord_Nerdhammer, huh? Don't rifts always appear on the gates that put the last rift token on their track? As I understand it, you're not houseruling -- that's the way it's supposed to be played. People have actually suggested houseruling rifts opening in Kingsport, and adding some sort of monster limit to the town in order to make it a threat.

I like Kingsport, maybe not as much as Dunwich or Innsmouth, but certainly more than the small box expansions.

I think many of the criticisms are valid though. They bother me less as I tend to play multiple invetsigator solos and losing one guys turn isn't such a bid deal in a game like that.

Also I tend to use sceanrios with Kingsport, so seacrhing there is important to the game and bad stuff might happen.

I love the monsters that came with Kinsport and 8 extra inevstigators were always handy. Although now with 48(!) that might not be such a draw (also they are a bit more hit and miss than the Dunwich invetsigators, which are my favourite batch). Most of the GOOs are fun, although I hate the unspellable spider. I don't do FBs unless my duaghter is playing, but I can buy into the love of the FB cards.

I think playing with Innsmouth, or even just the Innsmouth monsters in the cup will make monster (non)appearance in Kingsport less of an aissue with all the aquatics kickinga round.

- Mariana the ex-nun cultist

Mariana the Ex-Nun Cultist said:

You'll probably have to have the Innsmouth board too, or the only location an aquatic monster is likely to be is Unvisited Isle, and it'll probably never be there at the right time.

You'll need Kingsport anyway whether you want it or not, if you plan to enter a future arkham league (if there will be anymore), because chances are, there will be a scenario requiring it.

Mariana the Ex-Nun Cultist said:

What scenarios do you use with Kingsport? I have played a few times with the board and decided it was a little bit blah but I think I would like it if I just tweeked it a little bit, but I don't know how.

It does appear to be a great town to send Trish for her personal story, however. Quite a few gain two clues encounters.

I love Kingsport because I love Encounters. I like wandering into those places and seeing what happens. I find that Rifts are indeed a threat because it makes Arkham more lively. I have been chewed up by this game so much that I actually don't mind at all playing a supporting role as the Kingsport Sentinel, not worrying too much about being overwhelmed. The Rift Mechanic can be mixed with any amount of other expansions and not lose any action at all (unlike Dunwich, where if you add just a SINGLE other expansion DRIES UP almost completely). Kingsport Skills rock. Kingsport Allies rock. Kingsport Items and Spells are fun. Kingsport has some of the meanest AOs available. Kingsport Investigators are really interesting. Guardians are fun if you're not one who finds the game too easy. Epic Battle Cards are FANTASTIC. Kingsport Heralds make Azathoth and some of the "lighter" AOs viable again.

Everyone who hates Kingsport disagrees with some or all of that. And that usually translates to "don't buy it ever". But even if you don't like the board, there's enough else in there to add to your game.

It's easy to prevent Dunwich dilution. Just discard X random non-Dunwich location cards from the Mythos deck. When I play Dunwich, I use King in Yellow and Black Goat, and Dunwich has never dried up.

I just love Kingsport. As I love the two other towns. It is not really a matter of working/or/boring for me, it is a matter of feeling and theme. Something really harsh and gross with Dunwich, something misty and poetrical with Kingsport, something stealthy and oppressive with Inssmouth... I love the three of them as flavors, as one would take great pleasure in enjoying different coffees day after day I always have the three tiny boxes mixed in to add the spices, and then, when we have a game, we choose the neighboor town we gonna use this time, as we would pick up our Nespresso flavor

So I don't care if this or that expansion is less or more exciting : I just enjoy the unique flavor ! I'm lookin for our new game tonight, its been more than a week we haven't played, and I hope it will be Dunwich this time... or no, Kingsport, actually... wait, maybe Innsmouth ! ... bah, whatever

I like Kingsport because it gives me somewhere to put a badly weakened Investigator. Also, getting Luke the Captain of the White Ship is crazy if you can pull it off.

placeboeffect said:

I wrote some a while back and posted it on then old forum and BGG. I never put them into SA format, but I've started doing so (slowly). here is the nutshell version of two that I use with kingsport, both work quite well for me.

"Sons of Yog Sothoth" uses both dunwich and kingsport by preference, but can be played with any combination of expansions or none with a little adaptation. Here there are three wizards in hiding (whately, high priest and TT priest) one per town and 1 doom on the GOO sheet per wizard. Everytime their symbol moves (black only if few players) they send a monster to a random Stable location (until such time as they are caught and killed). You find them by taking an encounter at a stable location and making an evade check. Each success allows a chit to be drawb from a cup containing one postive chit per wizard and a scaleable number of blanks. If you find a wizard you put him on the board. One wizard in each town. If you kill a waizard remove a doom. If the GOO wakes up there is a combat boost depending on how many wizards are at lard. GOO of choice Yog Sothoth for theme, but pretty much any works. The idea is to force players to visit stable locations, put a little more time pressure on, get monsters into Kingsport and supply extra jobs for the players. I don't always use rifts in this set up.

"Malign Machinations" I wrote up for base AH, but can be played with any combination. A chosen number of MiGo are in disguise in Arkham (and environs) until they are all dealt with whenever yuggoth/circle moves a doom token is added. At set up deal an ally to each stable location except Ma's face down (if not enough allies e.g. AH only, leave the shops empty). Allies cannot be gained unless they have been moved to Ma's. To find the MiGo, investigate townsfolk: take encounter at stable with ally, then flip over ally and make skill check against one of the skills on the ally (use focus stamina and sanity as skills) minus the bonus. FAil, leave ally face up, nothing else happens. PAss draw a chit from a cup with the correct number of MiGo and blanks to a total = dealt out allies. If blank, place the innocent townsperson/dog/cat/zoog at Ma's. If MiGo discard ally and place migo on board. MiGo have extra toughness and elusive. 1st time MiGo moves it goes to sky, if it moves from sky it flies to yuggoth (GOO). Kill a MiGo remove a doom. FB boost to GOO for each surviving MiGo and miGo on GOO. If terror increases the removed ally must come from Ma's, if none there a player may discrad an ally if they chose otherwise +1 doom. Number of allies at ma's is subject to terror limit.

Apologies if this is unclear I have to run off now

Cheers - - Mariana the ex-nun cultist

placeboeffect said:

Funny that you mention Trish's PS. I just set up my first ever 2 board expansion game, with IH and KH. It had been a long time since I last played KH, so I couldn't remember the encounters. Trish was one of the randomly selected investigators and I just sent her to Kingsport this morning on a whim (second turn.) Hopefully she'll get one of those two clue encounters before a gate opens on the Unvisited Isle and wipes out the three clues sitting there.

I have Roland in Innsmouth (is it just me or does he seem perfect for keeping the DOR track in check?) and my other three investigators are all in OWs. That would be Luke, Rex and Pete, iwth Luke and Pete delayed right now. I'm hoping Rex will come out quickly enough to run down and get the UI clues to finish his PS on turn 4.

Nghtflame7 said:

Since Trish starts with 2 Clues, I would've SO sent her to the UI to collect 3 Clues, putting her at seal-capable status. Passing the PS is nice, but I'll take those "free" 3 Clues even though it doesn't help her pass her PS.

And yeah, Roland the Clue Machine (and Fed to boot) is very nice for calling in the Feds. That's even before he passes his PS, since he can slap down his 2 starting Clues, gets 1 next turn and has steady income, which can be used to buy Research Materials from First National.

Dam said:

I agree, but the third clue didn't appear until the end of the second turn mythos phase after Trish was already in Kingsport. She's still at the Kingsport train station, and has a motorcycle and a speed skill, so I may just run her straight back to Arkham when I go home and play turn three tonight.

As for Roland, that is exactly the way I work it. Right now he is roaming the streets with an enchanted blade, handcuffs and a bottle of whiskey. He just popped a cultist with the cuffs and another one appeared at EOoD on an existing gate during a turn 2 monster surge. Oh, Yoggie is the AOO, so the cuffs are quite handy when it comes to whacking the two toughness cultists and maniacs. I usually find the cuffs to be quite useless, but this game I have been lucky enough to get a few "cuffable" monsters early on.

I have, at times, house ruled that cuffs can be used on any human type monster, ie witches, warlocks, zombies and ghouls. Particularly if my young son has cuffs and is feeling frustrated by the game.

Nghtflame7 said:

Eh, huh, umm, what? Toughness 2? Yoggie = Yog-Sothoth I take it.

Handcuffs are great against Ithaqua Cultists. Sure, they're strong enough to have three toughness and to be vicious cannibals, but they're not strong enough to resist being handcuffed.

Turns out Ghouls are pretty compliant too.

"All right pal, you're comin with me!"

"Gurgle.... moan...."

"Yeah. That's what they all say."

Dam said:

I think it is Yog Sothoth. Slumber gives all monsters +1 toughness, right?

Ah, Shub-Niggurath .

Dam said:

Thanks for the clarification. I should have used your ubiquitous "IIRC" now that you explained it to me!

Sember Gumby!

I play with all IH+KH+DA+AH+KiY and found Kingsport to be kinda meh. Recently we built our own set of tokens for all the stable locations on all three boards (except for the House on the hill track which we are still debating) and that has made it much more interesting. In fact, in the last game we got totally bushwhacked by the placements and had two rifts open on us. We still managed to win the game but only becuase we drew 4 elder signs, the two tomes that remove doom tokens, completed the PS of both the sailor and the rookie cop. Closed gate victory with three turns left (8 seals down but we don't use that victory condition most games, with 6 players it is too easy.) We took out 3 bank (one was Finn) loans over the course of the game.

Before people start yelling about dilution, I've trimmed the deck so that all Hot locations have 12 (10[2]), all the warm locations 7(6[1]) and all the cool locations 2. Plus the various Monster surge, next act, etc gives me a 151 card deck that is,

50.6% Arkham

4% next act.

16.4% Dunnwich

21.7% Inssmouth

6.6% Other.

I keep BGotW and CotDP shuffled out because I can't solve for dilution with them shuffled in. DOR Track is really fun when playing for a closed gate victory.

To add my redundant 2 cents:

KH has fun allies, fun encounters. However, the board mechanic isn't particularly threatening once you have 3 or more Investigators. I'd say it makes the game more interesting, but the net-increase in difficulty isn't too high...

...except for the Epic battle cards, which you really, really need for better ancient one battles.