With my load out of Tarkin, Yularen, and Enhanced Armament, if I ever get to yaw just a bit, I can get a shot off from the side hull, use a concentrate fire token for a re-roll, exhaust Yularen to gain it back, and then fire from the rear hull zone and use the token again for another re-roll. Then on my next Ship Phase I'll gain the token back from Tarkin. The CR90s only have 2 shields up front, so if you pound it, you'll eventually get them to back off or blow up.

Has anyone tried any of the following:

1. Vic 1 (w/ Gunnery team) in the front with a Vic 2 (Dominator + Enh Arms) behind. You can't get behind the Vic 1 (or even frontal flank) without getting mauled by the Vic 2. That's 2 full SD lengths you have to get behind, unwrecked, before you get into their rear. Position your ties behind for further defense, if necessary.

I've already tried this, but ran the Vic2 out in front all tricked out, and ran the Vic1 behind it as a support/bodyguard ship... I liked the idea of banking both SDs and trapping enemy ships and using the Vic1's black dice at close range for maximum effect. It worked very well. I like the idea of running SDs in sequence to cover flanks and maximize broadsides >>>>>

Has anyone tried any of the following:

1. Vic 1 (w/ Gunnery team) in the front with a Vic 2 (Dominator + Enh Arms) behind. You can't get behind the Vic 1 (or even frontal flank) without getting mauled by the Vic 2. That's 2 full SD lengths you have to get behind, unwrecked, before you get into their rear. Position your ties behind for further defense, if necessary.

I've already tried this, but ran the Vic2 out in front all tricked out, and ran the Vic1 behind it as a support/bodyguard ship... I liked the idea of banking both SDs and trapping enemy ships and using the Vic1's black dice at close range for maximum effect. It worked very well. I like the idea of running SDs in sequence to cover flanks and maximize broadsides >>>>>

Seriously, if he got caught in your close range front arc he is not doing it right.

Has anyone tried any of the following:

1. Vic 1 (w/ Gunnery team) in the front with a Vic 2 (Dominator + Enh Arms) behind. You can't get behind the Vic 1 (or even frontal flank) without getting mauled by the Vic 2. That's 2 full SD lengths you have to get behind, unwrecked, before you get into their rear. Position your ties behind for further defense, if necessary.

I've already tried this, but ran the Vic2 out in front all tricked out, and ran the Vic1 behind it as a support/bodyguard ship... I liked the idea of banking both SDs and trapping enemy ships and using the Vic1's black dice at close range for maximum effect. It worked very well. I like the idea of running SDs in sequence to cover flanks and maximize broadsides >>>>>

Are you catching Imperial ships with the Black Dice or Rebel ships. If they were Rebels send that player here and we will straighten him out.

Seriously, if he got caught in your close range front arc he is not doing it right.

Rebel... I think it was a side zone, but it may have been 1 of each. We were playing Minefields, and honestly, having played Rebels 6 times, positioning is easy to theorcraft and hard to implement flawlessly.

Has anyone tried any of the following:

1. Vic 1 (w/ Gunnery team) in the front with a Vic 2 (Dominator + Enh Arms) behind. You can't get behind the Vic 1 (or even frontal flank) without getting mauled by the Vic 2. That's 2 full SD lengths you have to get behind, unwrecked, before you get into their rear. Position your ties behind for further defense, if necessary.

I've already tried this, but ran the Vic2 out in front all tricked out, and ran the Vic1 behind it as a support/bodyguard ship... I liked the idea of banking both SDs and trapping enemy ships and using the Vic1's black dice at close range for maximum effect. It worked very well. I like the idea of running SDs in sequence to cover flanks and maximize broadsides >>>>>

Are you catching Imperial ships with the Black Dice or Rebel ships. If they were Rebels send that player here and we will straighten him out.

Seriously, if he got caught in your close range front arc he is not doing it right.

Rebel... I think it was a side zone, but it may have been 1 of each. We were playing Minefields, and honestly, having played Rebels 6 times, positioning is easy to theorcraft and hard to implement flawlessly.

Also we are still in the infancy of Armada and we are all still learning to drive. But once we are all on 3x6 tables with the turning figured out it will be a different game. (Not saying you are but playing on a 3x3 is to the Imperial player's advantage and everyone should be on a 3x6 table after the introductory games.)

First LTP game I had was a slaughter - the Vic went down by the 5th round. In round 2 and 3 - the X-wings had obliterated the ties (lots of 1 exchange tie squadrons) - with the x-wings losing just 1 squadron - the corvette and Nebulon pounced the front and right side while the x-wings pummeled the rear and right. Granted, Rebel dice were hot.

Second game, the Corvette tried to come around at high speed, but a well timed navigate + navigate token let me stop the victory, and the corvette ended up flying past the victory's rear arc.

Third game - Tarken + Wulf was amazing on the victory - with squadrons going off, and Dominator + concentrate fire pumping 6 blue and 3 red into the side of the nebulon - killing it in a single shot. We discovered it's very important to have the objectives very far apart in the firing lanes mission.

Has anyone tried any of the following:

1. Vic 1 (w/ Gunnery team) in the front with a Vic 2 (Dominator + Enh Arms) behind. You can't get behind the Vic 1 (or even frontal flank) without getting mauled by the Vic 2. That's 2 full SD lengths you have to get behind, unwrecked, before you get into their rear. Position your ties behind for further defense, if necessary.

I've already tried this, but ran the Vic2 out in front all tricked out, and ran the Vic1 behind it as a support/bodyguard ship... I liked the idea of banking both SDs and trapping enemy ships and using the Vic1's black dice at close range for maximum effect. It worked very well. I like the idea of running SDs in sequence to cover flanks and maximize broadsides >>>>>

Are you catching Imperial ships with the Black Dice or Rebel ships. If they were Rebels send that player here and we will straighten him out.

Seriously, if he got caught in your close range front arc he is not doing it right.

Rebel... I think it was a side zone, but it may have been 1 of each. We were playing Minefields, and honestly, having played Rebels 6 times, positioning is easy to theorcraft and hard to implement flawlessly.

Not going to disagree but it can be done once the Rebels figure out all the trajectories at different speeds. I am planning on testing out a lot of different tactics about manouvering and will post them when I have them nailed down.

Also we are still in the infancy of Armada and we are all still learning to drive. But once we are all on 3x6 tables with the turning figured out it will be a different game. (Not saying you are but playing on a 3x3 is to the Imperial player's advantage and everyone should be on a 3x6 table after the introductory games.)

Oh it can totally be done, its just a heck of a challenge. I will most definitely be look forwarding to your articles, as I've been struggling with the manuevering and planning ahead as well. I tend to get stuck "in the moment".

I will say a 3x6 was much more enjoyable. Minefields really changed everything though, between trying to dodge obstacles, mines, the edge of the board, other rebel ships, avoiding my firing arcs was easier said than done.

As you can see, even the SDs had trouble manuvering... the one on the left just barely managed to avoid ramming the one in front with a manuver worthy of the original trilogy.

I think the Gladiator has a great roll to play in support of the Victory. It's heavy broadside armament should give the Rebels a tough choice. I do believe it will correct much of the current problem the Imperials face.

Rather than deploying in opposite corners facing the center, which still potentially gives the rebels the option of flanking up a board edge and coming in behind the VSDs as they move toward the center, why not put them closer to center, but each facing toward one flank? Board size would matter, but it seems you could have the VSDs perform a sort of diamond-shaped maneuver. The forward arcs protect the flanks, but if the rebels advance to the center, they are taking broadsides from both ships.

I haven't played with two VSDs yet but I would be wary of deploying them too far apart. Given the higher speed of the rebel ships I would expect the rebel player to simply gang up on one VSD while the other is too far away to help.

I think the Gladiator has a great roll to play in support of the Victory. It's heavy broadside armament should give the Rebels a tough choice. I do believe it will correct much of the current problem the Imperials face.

Is there currently a perception that the Empire is weak? Or just that they have certain issues that can't be fixed until wave 1?

No I'd say the current perception is the opposite.

I believe he is simply making note of the fact that the VSD is very flankable. And will be more so on the larger build. Once at a point level where you can really punish a VSD for turning it's flank you will need something to dissuade that move. Such as a punishing short range broadside cutting them off.

I think the Gladiator has a great roll to play in support of the Victory. It's heavy broadside armament should give the Rebels a tough choice. I do believe it will correct much of the current problem the Imperials face.

Is there currently a perception that the Empire is weak? Or just that they have certain issues that can't be fixed until wave 1?

The empire is certainly not weak, but at this point they (imo) definitely the more difficult side to come to grips with, mainly due to complex lack of flexibility

Victories pummel capital ships, and couldn't reliably kill an x-wing if it spent the whole game shooting at it.

Ties shoot a blue die at capitals ignoring crits and having worthless accuracy results (courtesy of one die)

Compared to the 2 anti-squadron die Neb and the Bomber X-wings, there's not a lot of ways for the empire player to win a straight slug-fest apart from "keep X in front arc"

Once Wave 1 hits, though, they'll get Bombers and Gladiators to fill in the gaps (plus interceptors look freaking deadly)

The empire is certainly not weak, but at this point they (imo) definitely the more difficult side to come to grips with, mainly due to complex lack of flexibility

Victories pummel capital ships, and couldn't reliably kill an x-wing if it spent the whole game shooting at it.

Ties shoot a blue die at capitals ignoring crits and having worthless accuracy results (courtesy of one die)

Compared to the 2 anti-squadron die Neb and the Bomber X-wings, there's not a lot of ways for the empire player to win a straight slug-fest apart from "keep X in front arc"

Once Wave 1 hits, though, they'll get Bombers and Gladiators to fill in the gaps (plus interceptors look freaking deadly)

I will say that I only have commanded and Imperial fleet twice so far but my Ties Ripped Up the X-Wings something feirce. Mind you all my Ties died but that is what Ties are for. To die for the Empire.

The only reason the empire looks 1 dimensional to anyone is that they havent read the objective cards and all they do is theorycraft deathmatches. 2 speed is pretty fast if you never slow down and it turns decently with nav tokens.

The only reason the empire looks 1 dimensional to anyone is that they havent read the objective cards and all they do is theorycraft deathmatches. 2 speed is pretty fast if you never slow down and it turns decently with nav tokens.

So the VSD for now has to rely on its firepower and shields. Also a lot of the objective cards do not give you objective tokens to get VP from and some just add obstacles for you to maneuver around. The trick is no matter how you look at it the VSD is not good at Manouvering and that is kind of the point. It is a heavy tank that rumbles forward that the enemy has to dance around to have a fighting chance.

I have been playing with the movement tool to figure out the different speeds and Yaws and am trying to get a good grip on them. And everytime the VSD just does not come close. The GSD though will and I will be using them when I go Imperial with a VSD pulling up the rear.

When second wave hits the Empire will have more character in the way it plays, but right now it really is just a push forward and throw that fire at your enemy and try to limit their flanking as much as possible. You can't stop a good Admiral but if you mitigate it some your VSD will survive till turn 6 and if you drop one Rebel ship you will most likely have enough VP to pull off a win.

The Rebels are the ones who will be more tricky to pull off a win becuase you make one wrong turn or misjudge that VSD's yaw and you will most likely lose that ship either that turn or be wounded so bad it will be finished off the next round of fire.

If you want to think of the Empire as being the more skill intensive faction go ahead. But the VSD is very limited as far as movement. So by the end of the game the VSD will have had a fraction of possible turns and positions it could have gotten into then compared to the Rebels. And with the VSD's Hull and Shields being as high as it is it is more forgiving when you make a mistake.

All that aside, my Victory has only suffered when I fail to engage enemy fighters before they hit my ship. My opponents have been very good at leaving their X-wings in my path where I have no choice but to run into them, allowing the positioning of their fighters at will. I let this happen a few times just to see how it went. Burning or destroyed Victory. Any game where I engaged the X-wings early with my Ties kept me in the game with very little damage by the end.

Objective play is quite a different story however, so I agree that it changes the Victory's effectiveness in each situation. The Rebel players have been taking more risks to gain VPs through objectives, and make critical mistakes in their efforts. When it needs to maneuver, the Victory is alright at it, you just have to plan your orders to accordingly. As far as I can tell the high speed rebels have a harder time with it.

Bro... all ships rely on shields and firepower to get by. You cant really arc dodge in this game.

Also so what if you cant get your forward arc on them? Your side arc is still respectable firepower without enhanced armament. God help them if you get 2 arcs. if you pack the dominator its even more hilarious.

With most of the objectives you have to approach them differently if you are vsd heavy. But there is still quite abit of tactical play involved with it.

Bro... all ships rely on shields and firepower to get by. You cant really arc dodge in this game.

Also so what if you cant get your forward arc on them? Your side arc is still respectable firepower without enhanced armament. God help them if you get 2 arcs. if you pack the dominator its even more hilarious.

With most of the objectives you have to approach them differently if you are vsd heavy. But there is still quite abit of tactical play involved with it.

You absolutely can arc dodge and use manoeuvring to reduce you opponents attack.

Every Rebel Admiral is going to be attempting to maintain long range, or better yet, force the Imperial player to shoot at long range and then move to medium range so the Rebel player can then do the reverse.

Ensuring your ships remain in only one arc (as you said), and taking this even further, ensuring all your ships remain in one enemy arc (such that without a gunnery team you can only shoot once per turn) is arc dodging.

I think it's pretty clear that Beatty's suggestion that a VSD relies on shields and firepower to prevail is pretty spot on. The way I see it, the Rebels will win core set battles by superior movement and the Imperials by brute force.

And I find that awesomely thematic!

yar

arc dodging the victory is almost trivial considering how poorly it turns, and while the sides are fine they're not really 85 points of fine

not to mention the rebel ships have defensive tokens to cancel damage that encourage it stay at range (dodge action, lesser amount of red dice on victory) whereas the victory has one brace and several redirects (stressing reliance on shields)

which is why I believe the Victory will become much stronger with more ships on the table to force enemies into its forward firing arc

yar

arc dodging the victory is almost trivial considering how poorly it turns, and while the sides are fine they're not really 85 points of fine

not to mention the rebel ships have defensive tokens to cancel damage that encourage it stay at range (dodge action, lesser amount of red dice on victory) whereas the victory has one brace and several redirects (stressing reliance on shields)

which is why I believe the Victory will become much stronger with more ships on the table to force enemies into its forward firing arc

Although if you ram a ship with your GSD you can pin a slower ship for you VSD to get a bead. All depends on the ship's speed.

Don't anyone worry though, there will be tactics and more tactics for everyone in a month or so.

I'm not knocking the Victory

I just said "I believe the Victory will become much stronger with more ships on the table to force enemies into its foward firing arc"

options include

1.) Gladiators to block *******

2.) more Victories to overlap arcs

3.) more enemy capital ships to present a more target rich enviroment

4.) more capable anti-capital ship squadrons (well, the bomber anyway) which happens to synergize directly with the Corrupter title to absolutely fling those bastards across the board to where the victory can't possibly reach on its own. With its base Squadron and a token (ala Tarkin or just planning ahead) you can get four of those buggers (one of them potentially being Rhymer) to basically drop a Gladiator's worth of fire on some poor bastard (and clog up its flight path so that when it moves, it brings the bombers along with it)

I'm not knocking the Victory

I just said "I believe the Victory will become much stronger with more ships on the table to force enemies into its foward firing arc"

options include

1.) Gladiators to block *******

2.) more Victories to overlap arcs

3.) more enemy capital ships to present a more target rich enviroment

4.) more capable anti-capital ship squadrons (well, the bomber anyway) which happens to synergize directly with the Corrupter title to absolutely fling those bastards across the board to where the victory can't possibly reach on its own. With its base Squadron and a token (ala Tarkin or just planning ahead) you can get four of those buggers (one of them potentially being Rhymer) to basically drop a Gladiator's worth of fire on some poor bastard (and clog up its flight path so that when it moves, it brings the bombers along with it)

Let's be honest there is super limited tactical depth when just playing out of a Core Set.

Each side is stuck to one Squadron type, with limited support abilities. The VSD has no support to dissuade the Rebels from just avoiding it. And the Rebels can't do much but try to not get shot in the first pass at them maybe plink of some Shields and kill some TIEs.

Though I did give 3 Rebels Ships and no Squadrons a try and you can absolutely blitz down a VSD with that set up. I think it took a total of 5 activations shooting at it to drop it. Now mind you he put a hurting on two of my ships, nearly killing one, but he went down quick to that effort. Really only thing to take from it is that from an Imperial standpoint you can't let yourself get isolated