The core set is definitely evenly balanced, but the opposing admirals have to use different strategies for victory. The strength of the Rebels is in their versatility while the Imperials excel at focusing on particular strengths. The Imperial player should endeavor to use his TIEs to destroy the Xwings. At that point, it will be much more difficult for the Rebels to successfully bring down the Victory within the round time limit. Things get far more interesting with missions, objectives and upgrades though.

PS. I don't think you will every be able to "bring her around" once the Rebels get into the aft or side arcs.

Dominator w/ enhanced weaponry solves all your arc problems.

The core set is definitely evenly balanced, but the opposing admirals have to use different strategies for victory. The strength of the Rebels is in their versatility while the Imperials excel at focusing on particular strengths. The Imperial player should endeavor to use his TIEs to destroy the Xwings. At that point, it will be much more difficult for the Rebels to successfully bring down the Victory within the round time limit. Things get far more interesting with missions, objectives and upgrades though.

PS. I don't think you will every be able to "bring her around" once the Rebels get into the aft or side arcs.

Which when wave 1 hits an more & different ships can be used you won't need to bring the VSD around you'll bring the GSD or 2nd VSD to cover the 1st. Can't wait.

So far right now it looks like a lot of familiarization.

Dominator w/ enhanced weaponry solves all your arc problems.

I don't know if I'd dump all those points, but it is a good thing to note

the front arc is where most of the Victory's power is concentrated, but that doesn't make it worthless along the side even if it is more than likely inefficient. Its shields are strong there and the offense is higher than the sides of the non-frigate rebels. Augmenting their broadsides could very much mitigate dependency on the front arc.

In my games as the Imps, I've throttled the VSD down to speed 1 and kept the ties tight. I think it's important to remember it's a 6 turn game...the Rebels in the L2P scenario really lack the stopping power to take out the VSD unless the X-Wings can make it in for some hits.

My typical tactic is to sit back and keep as much of the battle area in the VSD's forward arc. By sitting back, the Rebels don't really have an opportunity to get behind me within 6 turns. Pick off either Rebel ship and it should be an imperial win in 6 turns.

I really shouldn't speak without actually driving a Victory myself (waiting for Core set to come in, curses!) but talking to my manager today about Armada strategies and it was his opinion that Victories and the Empire really suffer in the core setup. Even with only core equipment the empire is always going to be at a disadvantage against the rebels.

Yeah, I haven't touched them yet but I'm not so sure he's right. My plan for taking a victory is to drive at speed 1 with a banked speed command, and hold my fighters in reserve until 1-2 turns later when I activate fighters, pounce on and chip away the X-Wings, and then annihilate any Nebulon-Bs that I know can't escape the forward guns.

If the rebels ever get behind me I'd throw that speed command to crank it up and try to get out of the rear arc. I expect my turn would be wide enough that I can throw off a pursuing CR-90.

And if the Rebel does something foolish like split his X-Wings or charge at me with the CR-90 I can respond accordingly by picking off the former, and shooting up then ramming the latter.

I guess I'm just wondering if more people are doing things like never changing speed and timing their fighter moves off and that's why the Empire has a purported loss ratio. Just because you're driving a victory doesn't mean it's going to be simple to win.

That sounds about right. In my learning game, I got the win as the Imperials doing something similar. My second command dial was a Squadron command and I had taken a Squadron token from Tarkin (I had 3 TIEs and Howlrunner). On that turn I was able to pounce the X-Wings, and they never got a shot off on my Victory. The expected outcome of a CR90 trailing the Victory happened at the end, after I got two turns of side shots into the Nebulon-B, but I really wasn't worried. With my load out of Tarkin, Yularen, and Enhanced Armament, if I ever get to yaw just a bit, I can get a shot off from the side hull, use a concentrate fire token for a re-roll, exhaust Yularen to gain it back, and then fire from the rear hull zone and use the token again for another re-roll. Then on my next Ship Phase I'll gain the token back from Tarkin. The CR90s only have 2 shields up front, so if you pound it, you'll eventually get them to back off or blow up.

I really shouldn't speak without actually driving a Victory myself (waiting for Core set to come in, curses!) but talking to my manager today about Armada strategies and it was his opinion that Victories and the Empire really suffer in the core setup. Even with only core equipment the empire is always going to be at a disadvantage against the rebels.

Yeah, I haven't touched them yet but I'm not so sure he's right. My plan for taking a victory is to drive at speed 1 with a banked speed command, and hold my fighters in reserve until 1-2 turns later when I activate fighters, pounce on and chip away the X-Wings, and then annihilate any Nebulon-Bs that I know can't escape the forward guns.

If the rebels ever get behind me I'd throw that speed command to crank it up and try to get out of the rear arc. I expect my turn would be wide enough that I can throw off a pursuing CR-90.

And if the Rebel does something foolish like split his X-Wings or charge at me with the CR-90 I can respond accordingly by picking off the former, and shooting up then ramming the latter.

I guess I'm just wondering if more people are doing things like never changing speed and timing their fighter moves off and that's why the Empire has a purported loss ratio. Just because you're driving a victory doesn't mean it's going to be simple to win.

I actually couldn't disagree more with your friends conclusions. Core contents alone at the 180pt level the Rebel builds do not have a real ability to actually destroy the VSD in the 6 RD limit.

You don't have the dice/quantity of attacks to overwhelm the VSDs defenses or repair abilities, without making major risks with your own ships. Doing so means you are more likely to take a loss which really removes an hope of destroying the VSD and essentially even with objectives means you've likely lost at that point.

The smaller board size means that the VSD can protect itself with the board edge and not allow the Rebels ships to gain needed position. Simply getting behind doesn't work you need to be both behind and to the side, and very close, in order to maintain firing position when the VSD moves.

At 180pts you can't take more then 4 X-wing Squadrons. The result being even if you win the Squadron battle you will lose time and Squadrons meaning you won't have enough of either left to augment your ships. Especially since all of the Squadron force modifier are not in the Core Set.

This is not to say Rebels can't win games. But they are really restricted to VP and TIE sniping to do so, and in most cases lose if they lose either ship.

I really shouldn't speak without actually driving a Victory myself (waiting for Core set to come in, curses!) but talking to my manager today about Armada strategies and it was his opinion that Victories and the Empire really suffer in the core setup. Even with only core equipment the empire is always going to be at a disadvantage against the rebels.

Yeah, I haven't touched them yet but I'm not so sure he's right. My plan for taking a victory is to drive at speed 1 with a banked speed command, and hold my fighters in reserve until 1-2 turns later when I activate fighters, pounce on and chip away the X-Wings, and then annihilate any Nebulon-Bs that I know can't escape the forward guns.

If the rebels ever get behind me I'd throw that speed command to crank it up and try to get out of the rear arc. I expect my turn would be wide enough that I can throw off a pursuing CR-90.

And if the Rebel does something foolish like split his X-Wings or charge at me with the CR-90 I can respond accordingly by picking off the former, and shooting up then ramming the latter.

I guess I'm just wondering if more people are doing things like never changing speed and timing their fighter moves off and that's why the Empire has a purported loss ratio. Just because you're driving a victory doesn't mean it's going to be simple to win.

I actually couldn't disagree more with your friends conclusions. Core contents alone at the 180pt level the Rebel builds do not have a real ability to actually destroy the VSD in the 6 RD limit.

You don't have the dice/quantity of attacks to overwhelm the VSDs defenses or repair abilities, without making major risks with your own ships. Doing so means you are more likely to take a loss which really removes an hope of destroying the VSD and essentially even with objectives means you've likely lost at that point.

The smaller board size means that the VSD can protect itself with the board edge and not allow the Rebels ships to gain needed position. Simply getting behind doesn't work you need to be both behind and to the side, and very close, in order to maintain firing position when the VSD moves.

At 180pts you can't take more then 4 X-wing Squadrons. The result being even if you win the Squadron battle you will lose time and Squadrons meaning you won't have enough of either left to augment your ships. Especially since all of the Squadron force modifier are not in the Core Set.

This is not to say Rebels can't win games. But they are really restricted to VP and TIE sniping to do so, and in most cases lose if they lose either ship.

Not to say I disagree with your points, but at a true 180 game with flagships, I feel the rebels have enough tools to beat a victory. Using dodannas pride and dodanna can horribly cripple a victory, and tarkin alone means imperials are looking at 3-4 ties if they are upgrading their ship like everyone wants too. (Enhanced armaments and hanger bays) now I'm my experience with a nebulon, I feel its usually worse than the corvette. Its more functional with its commands, but its not tougher in practice, and your side arcs are usually poor, so I'd postulate that 3 corvettes might be better than the starter force

I very much like the look of Dondonna's Pride. But the mid-ranged variant of the Cr-90 that best utilizes it has to play a very dangerous game currently.

This is because there there aren't enough other ways to spend points to really dissuade the Imperial player from taking the Victory 2, and by taking the V2 they really limit how you can engage with the Pride. Which is compounded by the board sized as I mentioned. You have a very narrow sweet spot in which you can line up for a pass (provided they gave initiative) in which you only eat a long ranged shot (not a big deal) and then they close into one or two of your arcs at mid range. From there if at proper speed you can settle into just thier middle arc and begin swinging around to get that back side angle I spoke of. It is there but it is narrow.

I agree with your thoughts on the Neb B currently. The fully extended arcs are really problematic on a ship that is so weak on the sides. Without all the titles available in the expansion is seems like a weak option. The Escort version can put a hurt on clustered TIEs, but again you just don't get to bring enough X-Wings to take advantage of it.

I agree I'd prefer 3 CR-90s currently, but that's 3 Core Sets so not realistic. With 3 you could brazenly throw away 1 and still have the weight of fire to finish it in spite of repairs.

I really shouldn't speak without actually driving a Victory myself (waiting for Core set to come in, curses!) but talking to my manager today about Armada strategies and it was his opinion that Victories and the Empire really suffer in the core setup. Even with only core equipment the empire is always going to be at a disadvantage against the rebels.

Yeah, I haven't touched them yet but I'm not so sure he's right. My plan for taking a victory is to drive at speed 1 with a banked speed command, and hold my fighters in reserve until 1-2 turns later when I activate fighters, pounce on and chip away the X-Wings, and then annihilate any Nebulon-Bs that I know can't escape the forward guns.

If the rebels ever get behind me I'd throw that speed command to crank it up and try to get out of the rear arc. I expect my turn would be wide enough that I can throw off a pursuing CR-90.

And if the Rebel does something foolish like split his X-Wings or charge at me with the CR-90 I can respond accordingly by picking off the former, and shooting up then ramming the latter.

I guess I'm just wondering if more people are doing things like never changing speed and timing their fighter moves off and that's why the Empire has a purported loss ratio. Just because you're driving a victory doesn't mean it's going to be simple to win.

I actually couldn't disagree more with your friends conclusions. Core contents alone at the 180pt level the Rebel builds do not have a real ability to actually destroy the VSD in the 6 RD limit.

You don't have the dice/quantity of attacks to overwhelm the VSDs defenses or repair abilities, without making major risks with your own ships. Doing so means you are more likely to take a loss which really removes an hope of destroying the VSD and essentially even with objectives means you've likely lost at that point.

The smaller board size means that the VSD can protect itself with the board edge and not allow the Rebels ships to gain needed position. Simply getting behind doesn't work you need to be both behind and to the side, and very close, in order to maintain firing position when the VSD moves.

At 180pts you can't take more then 4 X-wing Squadrons. The result being even if you win the Squadron battle you will lose time and Squadrons meaning you won't have enough of either left to augment your ships. Especially since all of the Squadron force modifier are not in the Core Set.

This is not to say Rebels can't win games. But they are really restricted to VP and TIE sniping to do so, and in most cases lose if they lose either ship.

Not to say I disagree with your points, but at a true 180 game with flagships, I feel the rebels have enough tools to beat a victory. Using dodannas pride and dodanna can horribly cripple a victory, and tarkin alone means imperials are looking at 3-4 ties if they are upgrading their ship like everyone wants too. (Enhanced armaments and hanger bays) now I'm my experience with a nebulon, I feel its usually worse than the corvette. Its more functional with its commands, but its not tougher in practice, and your side arcs are usually poor, so I'd postulate that 3 corvettes might be better than the starter force

Mind you I will be flying both Rebel and Imperial fleets so I have been studying both for their weaknesses. And the main weakness will be when an Imperial player thinks his tank can take on anything and his opponent spend the game out pacing him and getting the Objectives. (There are not many sit and hold objectives and good luck getting that one with the way Objectives are picked.) Don't be too confident in the VSD's ability to win the game alone.

I don't know, I actually prefer the Neb. It can go surprisingly fast when it needs to (not as fast, obviously) and, most importantly for me, it packs the squadron support that will make this game varied and interesting. Command 2 will let it fling some fighters around in a way that's sure to get more important once the imperials get something more frightening than tie fighters, and the anti-squadron armament is going to be incredibly helpful in conjunction with the command to get squadron superiority on the table.

I very much like the look of Dondonna's Pride. But the mid-ranged variant of the Cr-90 that best utilizes it has to play a very dangerous game currently.

This is because there there aren't enough other ways to spend points to really dissuade the Imperial player from taking the Victory 2, and by taking the V2 they really limit how you can engage with the Pride. Which is compounded by the board sized as I mentioned. You have a very narrow sweet spot in which you can line up for a pass (provided they gave initiative) in which you only eat a long ranged shot (not a big deal) and then they close into one or two of your arcs at mid range. From there if at proper speed you can settle into just thier middle arc and begin swinging around to get that back side angle I spoke of. It is there but it is narrow.

I agree with your thoughts on the Neb B currently. The fully extended arcs are really problematic on a ship that is so weak on the sides. Without all the titles available in the expansion is seems like a weak option. The Escort version can put a hurt on clustered TIEs, but again you just don't get to bring enough X-Wings to take advantage of it.

I agree I'd prefer 3 CR-90s currently, but that's 3 Core Sets so not realistic. With 3 you could brazenly throw away 1 and still have the weight of fire to finish it in spite of repairs.

Just on the topic of vsd 2 and 3 corvettes, right now I'm seeing most people saying they prefer the vsd 1 to get a comfortable amount of fighters, and tarkin, and enhanced armaments to keep the side arcs as deadly as the front. Then they tack on the dominator title to add blue dice when necessary, so the fear of vsd 2 I think is unwarranted ATM. And with 3 corvettes, two core sets is pretty popular, so borrowing a third isn't unreasonable. I will say that it'll be bare bones with just dodanna and the title, and x wings. But the ability to just get into medium range and hang in there that the corvettes have is pretty strong, and if you crowd one side arc you can overwhelm his damage potential.

I don't know, I actually prefer the Neb. It can go surprisingly fast when it needs to (not as fast, obviously) and, most importantly for me, it packs the squadron support that will make this game varied and interesting. Command 2 will let it fling some fighters around in a way that's sure to get more important once the imperials get something more frightening than tie fighters, and the anti-squadron armament is going to be incredibly helpful in conjunction with the command to get squadron superiority on the table.

https://db.tt/Oupv0DA0

VSD falls to X-wings again!

I don't know, I actually prefer the Neb. It can go surprisingly fast when it needs to (not as fast, obviously) and, most importantly for me, it packs the squadron support that will make this game varied and interesting. Command 2 will let it fling some fighters around in a way that's sure to get more important once the imperials get something more frightening than tie fighters, and the anti-squadron armament is going to be incredibly helpful in conjunction with the command to get squadron superiority on the table.

I don't disagree that moving forward it has attractive aspects in certain roles. Most specifically as close Squadron support using it's broader side arcs for helping disengage your Squadrons after the initial clash, while throw it's decent long range front arc out at an oncoming ship.

But presently I just don't feel your getting enough benefit out of that role given the fact that it cost a third of your points and you have max 4 Squadrons.

When that becomes a 5th of your points and even after expected attrition you are still swooping in with 5-6 Squadrons (some of which may be Ys or Bs) then I feel that you are cooking with gas.

I very much like the look of Dondonna's Pride. But the mid-ranged variant of the Cr-90 that best utilizes it has to play a very dangerous game currently.

This is because there there aren't enough other ways to spend points to really dissuade the Imperial player from taking the Victory 2, and by taking the V2 they really limit how you can engage with the Pride. Which is compounded by the board sized as I mentioned. You have a very narrow sweet spot in which you can line up for a pass (provided they gave initiative) in which you only eat a long ranged shot (not a big deal) and then they close into one or two of your arcs at mid range. From there if at proper speed you can settle into just thier middle arc and begin swinging around to get that back side angle I spoke of. It is there but it is narrow.

I agree with your thoughts on the Neb B currently. The fully extended arcs are really problematic on a ship that is so weak on the sides. Without all the titles available in the expansion is seems like a weak option. The Escort version can put a hurt on clustered TIEs, but again you just don't get to bring enough X-Wings to take advantage of it.

I agree I'd prefer 3 CR-90s currently, but that's 3 Core Sets so not realistic. With 3 you could brazenly throw away 1 and still have the weight of fire to finish it in spite of repairs.

Just on the topic of vsd 2 and 3 corvettes, right now I'm seeing most people saying they prefer the vsd 1 to get a comfortable amount of fighters, and tarkin, and enhanced armaments to keep the side arcs as deadly as the front. Then they tack on the dominator title to add blue dice when necessary, so the fear of vsd 2 I think is unwarranted ATM. And with 3 corvettes, two core sets is pretty popular, so borrowing a third isn't unreasonable. I will say that it'll be bare bones with just dodanna and the title, and x wings. But the ability to just get into medium range and hang in there that the corvettes have is pretty strong, and if you crowd one side arc you can overwhelm his damage potential.

For instance I won a game last night because all that was wiped out was the Squadrons on both sides. The scenario (Superior Position) never came in so essentially my opponent lost because he had too many points in vulnerable TIEs.

Now again this is talking about Core Set and the current point level.

I find that by clustering ties behind the victory with a couple to tie up the xwings really punishes anyone who gets behind it. Those xwings might be tough to take down, but pouring shots into the very lightly armored rebel ships really let's the Victory do it's job. The swarms are great, even if all they are doing is denying the xwings the ability to move and shoot and their real targets.

Has anyone tried any of the following:

1. Vic 1 (w/ Gunnery team) in the front with a Vic 2 (Dominator + Enh Arms) behind. You can't get behind the Vic 1 (or even frontal flank) without getting mauled by the Vic 2. That's 2 full SD lengths you have to get behind, unwrecked, before you get into their rear. Position your ties behind for further defense, if necessary.

2. Position the 2 Vics (either class) next to each other, facing different directions. Once you get them in position (preferably in the middle of the board), park them there (speed 0). No one can engage your rear without taking frontal shots from the adjacent Vic. I'd probably put Enh Arms and Gunnery team on both of these ships. Cluster Ties around. (I realize that this might be harder to do than it sounds; i"ll be playing with my toys to see how long it would take to get the 2 Vics parked parallel to each other, facing different directions.)

3. Once you get your Vics toward the center of the board, circle them around at speed 1, going in the same direction, at about 180 degrees from one another. (Like a school of sharks circling kind of thing.) Keep your ties in the very middle. Anyone that comes in gets mauled by a Tie swarm

Roc, I haven't tried your ideas yet, but I love your inventiveness! Can't wait to see those tactics on the board.

Has anyone tried any of the following:

1. Vic 1 (w/ Gunnery team) in the front with a Vic 2 (Dominator + Enh Arms) behind. You can't get behind the Vic 1 (or even frontal flank) without getting mauled by the Vic 2. That's 2 full SD lengths you have to get behind, unwrecked, before you get into their rear. Position your ties behind for further defense, if necessary.

2. Position the 2 Vics (either class) next to each other, facing different directions. Once you get them in position (preferably in the middle of the board), park them there (speed 0). No one can engage your rear without taking frontal shots from the adjacent Vic. I'd probably put Enh Arms and Gunnery team on both of these ships. Cluster Ties around. (I realize that this might be harder to do than it sounds; i"ll be playing with my toys to see how long it would take to get the 2 Vics parked parallel to each other, facing different directions.)

3. Once you get your Vics toward the center of the board, circle them around at speed 1, going in the same direction, at about 180 degrees from one another. (Like a school of sharks circling kind of thing.) Keep your ties in the very middle. Anyone that comes in gets mauled by a Tie swarm

Thanks kac! In fact, I'm coining these formations, if they work out, you heard them from me first! I'm calling them...

1. Train

2. 69

3. Sharks

...respectively.

:-)

Has anyone tried any of the following:

1. Vic 1 (w/ Gunnery team) in the front with a Vic 2 (Dominator + Enh Arms) behind. You can't get behind the Vic 1 (or even frontal flank) without getting mauled by the Vic 2. That's 2 full SD lengths you have to get behind, unwrecked, before you get into their rear. Position your ties behind for further defense, if necessary.

2. Position the 2 Vics (either class) next to each other, facing different directions. Once you get them in position (preferably in the middle of the board), park them there (speed 0). No one can engage your rear without taking frontal shots from the adjacent Vic. I'd probably put Enh Arms and Gunnery team on both of these ships. Cluster Ties around. (I realize that this might be harder to do than it sounds; i"ll be playing with my toys to see how long it would take to get the 2 Vics parked parallel to each other, facing different directions.)

3. Once you get your Vics toward the center of the board, circle them around at speed 1, going in the same direction, at about 180 degrees from one another. (Like a school of sharks circling kind of thing.) Keep your ties in the very middle. Anyone that comes in gets mauled by a Tie swarm

Have you navigated a VSD? Your plan is not as easy as you make it sound. Also the issue that seems to be forgotten is the Objectives. They make plans like these fall apart once the game starts. Every Objective Card calls for different tactics to achieve victory so Strategies are hard to plan. Better idea is to come up with different tactical plans for differnt objectives.

Yes, i have navigated them. I agree it's not necessarily easy, or even necessary (objectives pending) though, I think it will all depend on your starting deployment. For example, the parallel parking position (ie, 69)...If you deployed the 2 Vics pointing straight toward the rebel line, this will be very hard, as it means one will have to do a 180. However...if you deploy them, for example, at 45 degree angles, far apart from each other, facing in, then each Vic only has to do a 45 degree turn, coming to a stop when they get to their respective positions mid board. In that deployment, the Vics would be parallel to the long axis of the game mat and their fronts would be facing the sides of the board. Given that they probably wouldn't achieve this until turn 3, this might be actually be better, as the Rebel player would no doubt be moving as well.

But regardless, i don't think that it's so much of an issue of just doing one of these maneuver and pressing (or hoping for) the "i win" button, but rather in having canned formations that you know how to execute and when to execute them, either in response to how your opponent is playing, or how you want to run your offense.

Thanks kac! In fact, I'm coining these formations, if they work out, you heard them from me first! I'm calling them...

1. Train

2. 69

3. Sharks

...respectively.

:-)

Although 3 sounds a lot like a Lufbery Circle, but just like they couldn't use the term Immelmann in X-Wing, Sharks makes more sense because we're in a different galaxy here.

Reading another thread, I just realized you can't use defense tokens when your speed is 0. So I think the 69/Parallel Parking is probably out as a viable strategy.

Thanks kac! In fact, I'm coining these formations, if they work out, you heard them from me first! I'm calling them...

1. Train

2. 69

3. Sharks

...respectively.

:-)

Although 3 sounds a lot like a Lufbery Circle, but just like they couldn't use the term Immelmann in X-Wing, Sharks makes more sense because we're in a different galaxy here.

Right. And remember, there was a dude race in SW called "Hammerheads". :-) (In exploring this, I just realized, as a kid, I thought that my Hammerhead action figure was named as such because they looked like a Hammerhead shark. Do you suppose it's that, or because their heads look like hammers?)