Dominator (Victory upgrade): The card reads "...you may spend 2 shields from any of your hull zones to add that number of blue dice to your attack pool."
Does this work with anti-squadron fire?
Also, here's my 300pt Imperial list:
1. Victory II-Class Star Destroyer
2. Victory I-Class Star Destroyer
3. Howlrunner
4. 7x TIE Fighter Squadron
Total Points: 300
I play it that it does, since it doesn't specify, and all other cards that require a specific type of attack are very clear on it being anti-squadron or anti-ship.
I ran a similar list today and it was quite fun.
Vic II
Dominator
Tarkin
Enhanced Armament
Overload Pulse
Vic I
Assault Concussion Missiles
Weapons Liaison
Gunnery..person.
Howlrunner + 6 TIES
I went with the weapons Liaison because the goal of the Vic I in that build is pretty much to get your missiles off, and the weapons liaison lets you get a Concentrated Fire when you need it to throw an extra black die. Plus being able to attack twice from the front arc can be handy when you barge in on a bunch of rebel ships.
Have you used Wulff yet? He's good fun and worth the points, I believe.
At the start of the ship phase, Tarkin throws down his tokens (con fire)
When you use con fire to re-roll a dice, you use Wulff to get the con-fire token right back. Then when you fire from another arc, use it again. He turned my Vic-II into a re-rolling machine!
Have you used Wulff yet? He's good fun and worth the points, I believe.
At the start of the ship phase, Tarkin throws down his tokens (con fire)
When you use con fire to re-roll a dice, you use Wulff to get the con-fire token right back. Then when you fire from another arc, use it again. He turned my Vic-II into a re-rolling machine!
I don't think that's possible, sadly. Rules References says:
"A ship cannot resolve the same command more than once per round."
But you can combine the con fire token plus the con fire dial to add a die AND reroll one!
Vic I + Expanded Launchers+Dominator+Concentrate fire= 6 Black+2 Blue and 3 Red dice, thats one Dead ship!
Edited by Darth evilVic I + Expanded Launchers+Dominator+Concentrate fire= 8 Black and 3 Red dice, thats one Dead ship!
Oh that's gonna be fun to run! I run a Vic I + Assault Concussion Missiles + Dominator + Gunnery Team as my favorite ship right now. But Dominator only adds blue dice not black ones, sadly. I played it wrong the first couple of games too, adding black instead of blue. It's still a great upgrade, imo!
Your right even better Blue never miss.
Have you used Wulff yet? He's good fun and worth the points, I believe.
At the start of the ship phase, Tarkin throws down his tokens (con fire)
When you use con fire to re-roll a dice, you use Wulff to get the con-fire token right back. Then when you fire from another arc, use it again. He turned my Vic-II into a re-rolling machine!
I don't think that's possible, sadly. Rules References says:
"A ship cannot resolve the same command more than once per round."
But you can combine the con fire token plus the con fire dial to add a die AND reroll one!
aha! Well, cheers to learning. That does remove some of the flair to Wulff.
The Victory con-fire token/dial combo is stupid good if you get them squared in the front arc.
Any suggestions for getting the V1 into Black (Close) Range? Seems I'm having trouble getting any shots in my front arc in general and the Rebel player seems to dictate my arcs. I normally still up end winning as the Vengeance is unbelievably tanked.
Have you used Wulff yet? He's good fun and worth the points, I believe.
At the start of the ship phase, Tarkin throws down his tokens (con fire)
When you use con fire to re-roll a dice, you use Wulff to get the con-fire token right back. Then when you fire from another arc, use it again. He turned my Vic-II into a re-rolling machine!
I don't think that's possible, sadly. Rules References says:
"A ship cannot resolve the same command more than once per round."
But you can combine the con fire token plus the con fire dial to add a die AND reroll one!
Actually this feels like an issue that needs to be FAQ'd. The rules also say you can combine dials and the same tokens to combine into one single action, so whilst you COULDN'T reroll one attack, and then use the token to reroll ANOTHER attack dice in a seperate attack. You COULD spend the token, Wulff it, and then immiediately spend that NEXT token to reroll another dice.
In truth, the Concentrate Fire command is sort of a bad example as that action takes place over an entire attack and you would only spend the tokens if you NEEDED to.
A better example would be a Repair command, where you would activate the dial (for 4 points if this is a VSD) then the token (2 more points) then Wulf it, spend THAT toke for a total of 8 points, which is 4 shields or discard 2 damage cards and repair 1 shield.
Or Squadron command, where you could use a dial and token (again on the VSD) to command 4 (or 5 if you've got the hangars retrofit!) and then you Wulf and spend the second token to activate 5 whole TIE's (or potentially the full load of 6!)
In both these cases, since you are spending the tokens at the same time as the dial (Wulf is a when effect, and therefore occurs immiediately.) which bundles them all into a single Action.
So to confirm, the dominator card lets you have 3 anot squadron dice
Considering that you're paying in shields when you do this then yeah I see no problems with it.
I mean, you might do it once an Anti-Squadron attack, but no more really. Losing shields means you have less shields to spread damage to after all.
Personally I think Wulff is superfluous in a Tarkan list. He's all about command economy, and Tarkan already solves issues with that. It may be different with two core sets, but I've found that having Wulff is like... 'I really never feel like he's paying back his points here'. I think he's going to be great with all the other commanders, especially with Repair tokens on VSD's, but with Tarkan he's meh.
I suppose you can use him to get multiple Concentrate Fire orders in at once, but I've preffered being able to float a Repair token all game and just stay floating, and firing.
It actually works pretty well with the Dominator, since you can perminantly increase your firepower by 1 in effect.
I think Wulff really needs a nice big FAQ since he breaks the game in ways that it's clear that FFG hadn't noticed he would. Principally it's because he can get around the limitation that you can only have 1 token of 1 type in a round, because he present situations where you can have two tokens of any type per round, although not at the same time.
Really we need a clearer wording on how many Command Tokens you can combine with a Command Dial effect.
Personally, I do agree he's perhaps not the best choice in the 180pt game, and I would rather go with a Defensive Liason as sometimes you don't realise just how poor the VSD's turning circle is until your too close to a table edge to escape it, and being able to Navigate when you want is necessary, and Tarkin synergises excellently with this since you'll almost always have a token to spend.
I don't however agree with the assessment that he doesn't work with Tarkin. You need a token to begin with to make his ability function and if I'm right about how he works, then he'd be great on a dedicated carrier VSD, packing Expanded Launch Bays and the Corrupter Title, with 2 Bombers and Rhymer and 3 Interceptors nearby. Tarkin pops a Squadron command on the Corrupter, which reveals a Squadron Dial, you then spend the token, Wolf it, toss in the second token, and then move all six squadrons forwards at speed 5, with the Bombers attacking an extended range (how much extended we'll have to see, I'm still not convinced they won't change Rhymers wording, no other squadron uses the other side of the range ruler after all.)
Edited by Mward1984I think Wulff really needs a nice big FAQ since he breaks the game in ways that it's clear that FFG hadn't noticed he would. Principally it's because he can get around the limitation that you can only have 1 token of 1 type in a round, because he present situations where you can have two tokens of any type per round, although not at the same time.
Is there such a limitation? All I've read is that you can't have more than one token of the same type at the same time. Where does it say that you can't have the same token multiple times a round?
Adlerson
There isn't, and obviously for Wulf to even function you'd
I think Wulff really needs a nice big FAQ since he breaks the game in ways that it's clear that FFG hadn't noticed he would. Principally it's because he can get around the limitation that you can only have 1 token of 1 type in a round, because he present situations where you can have two tokens of any type per round, although not at the same time.
Is there such a limitation? All I've read is that you can't have more than one token of the same type at the same time. Where does it say that you can't have the same token multiple times a round?
Adlerson
There is no hard limit per se and Wulf wouldn't function at all if there were, but the Command rules were clearly written from the perspective that it would be impossible for a player to spend more than one token of the same type per round.
But because of Wulff and the keywords used for his effect it IS possible to have situations where you can spend two tokens in conjunction with a Dial, or two tokens by themselves.
I am trying to follow here. What does Wulff's Card actually say?
but the Command rules were clearly written from the perspective that it would be impossible for a player to spend more than one token of the same type per round.
I think that's where we disagree.
I don't see anything in the rules that makes it clear or obvious that this was the intention behind them, nor have I seen any statement from any of the developers to this effect.
All I see is the intention that 'we cannot STORE more than 1 of any one type of token at a time'.
If this is wrong though I'm sure they'll let us know.
Adlerson
I am trying to follow here. What does Wulff's Card actually say?
Wulf's effect states the following:
"When you spend a command token, you may exhaust this card to gain 1 command token of the same type."
Now, here's where it get's interesting. The 'when' keyword is used here, now the When keyword is covered in the section marked Effect Use and Timing as being the following:
" A 'when' effect occurs at the moment that the specified event occurs and cannot occur again for that instance of the event."
So the effect is instant, and occurs at the point that the player spends a command token with his command dial. Since the command is still at the point where you combine tokens and dials to merge the effect into a single Command this allows you to spend a second token to further upgrade the effect.
Now where I'm saying a FAQ is needed is that clearly FFG hadn't envisaged a situation where it would be possible to put two tokens of the same type into a Command Dial, or potentially each other.
Now, in my mind there's several ways they could errata this.
1) A ship can spend both a command dial and any command tokens of the same type to combine into a single resolution of that command.
2) Any tokens gained from exhausting Wulf Yularans effect occur after the Command Token effect has been resolved.
3) You can only augment a Dial Command with one Command Token per Command effect.
Then of course there's the question of can you use two Command Tokens of the same type with each other.
Edited by Mward1984
I think this is way too much rules lawyering.
I always ALWAYS do Rules as Intended because otherwise its people generally trying to "break" the game or "Find ways around rules"
Its clear in my mind the idea of Wulf is that you can use a repair token finish the effect, then get the repair token back.
It wasn't intended so you could use two repair tokens in the same action.
It's very clear to me in the Rules Reference that they never intended you to be able to have and use 2 tokens at the same time.
Otherwise its just Rules Lawyering looking for loop holes that clearly aren't there, and it bloats the FAQ.
Clearly looking on Page 4 under commands:
"A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single ....
"
If it as like you said then they would have included
"token(s)"
No where in the rules does it ever mention using multiple tokens in combination with each other its says 1 command dial and 1 command token.
If they wanted it to work as you say, then they easily could have used the AFTER keyword instead of WHEN for Wulff. They would have said ONE token instead of A token on the second to last bullet point of Commands topic. They also could have EASILY used the WHEN or WHILE keywords for the Dial and Token combine effect since both of those keywords SPECIFICALLY state that you can only trigger their effect once.
Now, there are other precedents to consider. For instance Calculation for X-Wing, which they had to specify in the FAQ you could use only once. You couldn't just keep feeding Focus tokens into it for further effects. So that's a point in your favour.
But on the other side of things are timing effects where since things occur simultanously you can choose the order in which it resolves. Such things like Boba-Fett (Imperial) + Stay on Target or Navigator, or that combo on it's own, or the recent ruling on Cowell. Where the step is "Reveal Maneouver Dial" and you resolve both effects in the timing in the order you choose.
But that's X-Wing, and what was ruled for X-Wing can only be considered at best a rough guide for how Armada will work.
This is why I say it needs a FAQ because the use of words on both the card and in the Rules Reference is legally vague. Which means it's going to need clarifying before any tournement starts.
I think this is way too much rules lawyering.
Its clear in my mind the idea of Wulf is that you can use a repair token finish the effect, then get the repair token back.
Otherwise its just Rules Lawyering looking for loop holes that clearly aren't there, and it bloats the FAQ.
That is my exact thinking. Which is why I thought it odd to need a FAQ entry for it. Just doesn't seem unclear to me.
Adlerson
The token has to be spent first is how I read it. To be spent, - it has to be gone. Then you can get it back. I agree with the above poster, additionally, the rules also say the following - if you get that second token copy before spending your original - you throw one out. FFG is pretty clear one is to not hold onto a 2nd copy of a token. As fast as one interpretation of the card says one gets a copy of a command token, FFG says you discard it just as fast.
Edited by wjgoWhen a ship is assigned a command token, if it already
has a copy of that command token, it must immediately
discard that command token.
The token has to be spent first is how I read it. To be spent, - it has to be gone. Then you can get it back. I agree with the above poster, additionally, the rules also say the following - if you get that second token copy before spending your original - you throw one out. FFG is pretty clear one is to not hold onto a 2nd copy of a token. As fast as one interpretation of the card says one gets a copy of a command token, FFG says you discard it just as fast.
When a ship is assigned a command token, if it already
has a copy of that command token, it must immediately
discard that command token.
I get the feeling I'm also not being very clear.
Basically, you have the Reveal Dial step, and in that step you choose whether or not to spend the dial or convert it into a Token right?
And in that step, if you chose to use the Dial, you may also spend a token to enhance it right?
What I want clarified is: When Wulf activates, since it's an immiediate interrupt, am I still in that step where I'm feeding Command Tokens into the Dial, like a kid putting extra coins into an arcade cabinet? Or has that step of the Command Dial phase already ended?
If Wulf had used the keyword AFTER you spend a Token, then I'd say that you definitely can't. But it says WHEN which implies that I'm still at the step where I'm putting tokens into the Dial effect to augment it.
I feel like I haven't really made this simple enough. Sorry.
It would have cleared everything up if the wording on Dial and Command token combination used any of the "you can only use this once" keywords literally there on the next page over.
One of the reasons I'm arguing so vociferously about this is because it makes sense from a component point of view. Cansider this: A VSD with expanded Hangars and Wulf could use his effect to activate 6 TIE fighters. How many TIE fighters did they give us in the core set? Six.
Re-reading Wulff I now agree that it looks like he would indeed allow you to add an extra command token to one action.
I personally don't see this as a problem, and I would be careful about trying to proclaim knowing FFG's intentions behind rules, but that said since there is some disagreement on the interpretation here an official answer from them wouldn't go amiss.
Adlerson