Didn't they back-peddle about the Yavin IV mat being tournament legal because of player grumblings? That suffers from just as much 'unfair advantage' as any other mat. And they used to say no 3rd party templates could be used, but they changed their mind about that. I'm pretty sure this rule is going to be pulled as well.

Totally called it.

As a TO, that means that I cannot let players use their mats. This is exactly like third party templates. Should both players disagree, the TO should be allowed to provide a mat. However, this forces stores to provide mats of some kind or requires players to bring an FFG mat. Let's be honest, FFG's distribution model has been pathetic at best (they're sold out in their own online store!).

So to skirt the rule, I'll just ask players to give me their mat, and since I will own it for the duration of the tournament, then I can use any third party mat I see fit.

Stupid rule that is easily subverted or ignored. Way to go FFG, make a ruling to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

As a TO, that means that I cannot let players use their mats. This is exactly like third party templates. Should both players disagree, the TO should be allowed to provide a mat. However, this forces stores to provide mats of some kind or requires players to bring an FFG mat. Let's be honest, FFG's distribution model has been pathetic at best (they're sold out in their own online store!).

So to skirt the rule, I'll just ask players to give me their mat, and since I will own it for the duration of the tournament, then I can use any third party mat I see fit.

Stupid rule that is easily subverted or ignored. Way to go FFG, make a ruling to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

THe rules first iteration mandated that only ffg mats can be used in tournaments, which would have been not enforced in many sc level events.

And your suggestion is not going around the rules, it is imo the way they intended the rules second iteration to be enforced as well as allowing store owned third party mats. If there is an advantage from mat familiarity it will be in much less quantities now since you usually wont play on the same table in a tournament.

I dont understand this negative reaction to the rule change. It is better than it was and people act it got worse somehow.

The funny part is that the overreaction to the revised rule is as bad if not worse than it was to the original. A bunch of people got terribly upset about a ruling that affected probably less than 1% of them, and then when it was revised such that the 1% would no longer be affected either, effectively maintaining the status quo (you can't use your own playmat) with a small adjustment (unless it's an official ffg one) which seems perfectly reasonable to me, and everyone is STILL up in arms.

Honestly, it's been hilarious watching the series of meltdowns from the sidelines here

As a TO, that means that I cannot let players use their mats. This is exactly like third party templates. Should both players disagree, the TO should be allowed to provide a mat. However, this forces stores to provide mats of some kind or requires players to bring an FFG mat. Let's be honest, FFG's distribution model has been pathetic at best (they're sold out in their own online store!).

So to skirt the rule, I'll just ask players to give me their mat, and since I will own it for the duration of the tournament, then I can use any third party mat I see fit.

Stupid rule that is easily subverted or ignored. Way to go FFG, make a ruling to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Jeez overreact much?

THe rules first iteration mandated that only ffg mats can be used in tournaments, which would have been not enforced in many sc level events.

And your suggestion is not going around the rules, it is imo the way they intended the rules second iteration to be enforced as well as allowing store owned third party mats. If there is an advantage from mat familiarity it will be in much less quantities now since you usually wont play on the same table in a tournament.

I dont understand this negative reaction to the rule change. It is better than it was and people act it got worse somehow.

First, the store will be host to a regional and I will be the TO. Second, the store does not have 20+ mats of any kind, let alone the generally unavailable FFG mats.

So what does that mean to me as a TO. It means I have to ask players to give me their mats so I can use them anyway. It's completely skirting the intention of the rule but the only alternative is say "here's 3x3 taped off plywood table, have fun".

I am reacting negatively because FFG is basically saying "go buy 20+ mats or tape off the plywood tables". Do you have $800 to give me so I can run a tournament? Do you want to play on taped off plywood? Or would you rather I just ignore the rule?

As a TO, that means that I cannot let players use their mats. This is exactly like third party templates. Should both players disagree, the TO should be allowed to provide a mat. However, this forces stores to provide mats of some kind or requires players to bring an FFG mat. Let's be honest, FFG's distribution model has been pathetic at best (they're sold out in their own online store!).

So to skirt the rule, I'll just ask players to give me their mat, and since I will own it for the duration of the tournament, then I can use any third party mat I see fit.

Stupid rule that is easily subverted or ignored. Way to go FFG, make a ruling to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Jeez overreact much?

THe rules first iteration mandated that only ffg mats can be used in tournaments, which would have been not enforced in many sc level events.

And your suggestion is not going around the rules, it is imo the way they intended the rules second iteration to be enforced as well as allowing store owned third party mats. If there is an advantage from mat familiarity it will be in much less quantities now since you usually wont play on the same table in a tournament.

I dont understand this negative reaction to the rule change. It is better than it was and people act it got worse somehow.

First, the store will be host to a regional and I will be the TO. Second, the store does not have 20+ mats of any kind, let alone the generally unavailable FFG mats.

So what does that mean to me as a TO. It means I have to ask players to give me their mats so I can use them anyway. It's completely skirting the intention of the rule but the only alternative is say "here's 3x3 taped off plywood table, have fun".

I am reacting negatively because FFG is basically saying "go buy 20+ mats or tape off the plywood tables". Do you have $800 to give me so I can run a tournament? Do you want to play on taped off plywood? Or would you rather I just ignore the rule?

You could ask the players to bring their own ffg mats?

Oh and 'if the rule change doesn't bother you...then don't post about it' is just as elitist and arrogant as you're accusing the other guy of being. It's a forum. You're bothered, he isn't, and you're BOTH able to freely provide an opinion. Shouting 'help help I'm being repressed' as you try and repress someone else isn't exactly helpful to your credibility.

His post was basically: "This discussion needs to die because everyone who dislikes FFG's rule change is an overly dramatic complainer who wants to blame their tournament losses on the mat their playing on."

He wasn't shy about posting his snarky, disparaging comments, so I didn't beat around the bush about the fact that I didn't appreciate it. And since he said he wanted this discussion to die, I told him how he could accomplish that: by not posting his unwanted comments. See? Now everyone is happy. One less poster means this discussion will die quicker and I don't have to listen to his snarky insults that don't contribute the discussion.

Now if he wants to actually participate in the discussion and say why he thinks this is a good rule change, then I'd be glad to hear what he has to say.

As a TO, that means that I cannot let players use their mats. This is exactly like third party templates. Should both players disagree, the TO should be allowed to provide a mat. However, this forces stores to provide mats of some kind or requires players to bring an FFG mat. Let's be honest, FFG's distribution model has been pathetic at best (they're sold out in their own online store!).

So to skirt the rule, I'll just ask players to give me their mat, and since I will own it for the duration of the tournament, then I can use any third party mat I see fit.

Stupid rule that is easily subverted or ignored. Way to go FFG, make a ruling to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Jeez overreact much?

THe rules first iteration mandated that only ffg mats can be used in tournaments, which would have been not enforced in many sc level events.

And your suggestion is not going around the rules, it is imo the way they intended the rules second iteration to be enforced as well as allowing store owned third party mats. If there is an advantage from mat familiarity it will be in much less quantities now since you usually wont play on the same table in a tournament.

I dont understand this negative reaction to the rule change. It is better than it was and people act it got worse somehow.

First, the store will be host to a regional and I will be the TO. Second, the store does not have 20+ mats of any kind, let alone the generally unavailable FFG mats.

So what does that mean to me as a TO. It means I have to ask players to give me their mats so I can use them anyway. It's completely skirting the intention of the rule but the only alternative is say "here's 3x3 taped off plywood table, have fun".

I am reacting negatively because FFG is basically saying "go buy 20+ mats or tape off the plywood tables". Do you have $800 to give me so I can run a tournament? Do you want to play on taped off plywood? Or would you rather I just ignore the rule?

Nowhere does it say that the venue must actually own the mats. If the venue wants to borrow them, they can. They are under no obligation to use them, UNLESS a player wants to replace a third-party may with an official FFG mat.

Oh and 'if the rule change doesn't bother you...then don't post about it' is just as elitist and arrogant as you're accusing the other guy of being. It's a forum. You're bothered, he isn't, and you're BOTH able to freely provide an opinion. Shouting 'help help I'm being repressed' as you try and repress someone else isn't exactly helpful to your credibility.

His post was basically: "This discussion needs to die because everyone who dislikes FFG's rule change is an overly dramatic complainer who wants to blame their tournament losses on the mat their playing on."

He wasn't shy about posting his snarky, disparaging comments, so I didn't beat around the bush about the fact that I didn't appreciate it. And since he said he wanted this discussion to die, I told him how he could accomplish that: by not posting his unwanted comments. See? Now everyone is happy. One less poster means this discussion will die quicker and I don't have to listen to his snarky insults that don't contribute the discussion.

Now if he wants to actually participate in the discussion and say why he thinks this is a good rule change, then I'd be glad to hear what he has to say.

Gosh, CAN he? Can he really participate in the debate as long as he does so in a way which you personally approve of as appropriate? I'm sure he'll be right along then...

The funny part is that the overreaction to the revised rule is as bad if not worse than it was to the original. A bunch of people got terribly upset about a ruling that affected probably less than 1% of them, and then when it was revised such that the 1% would no longer be affected either, effectively maintaining the status quo (you can't use your own playmat) with a small adjustment (unless it's an official ffg one) which seems perfectly reasonable to me, and everyone is STILL up in arms.

Because it is not maintaining the status quo. That "small adjustment" defeats the purpose of having a rule that forbids players from bringing their own playmat and their updated rule does nothing to change that. Why is it okay for a player to get an advantage from bringing their own playmat just because it was made by FFG?

The funny part is that the overreaction to the revised rule is as bad if not worse than it was to the original. A bunch of people got terribly upset about a ruling that affected probably less than 1% of them, and then when it was revised such that the 1% would no longer be affected either, effectively maintaining the status quo (you can't use your own playmat) with a small adjustment (unless it's an official ffg one) which seems perfectly reasonable to me, and everyone is STILL up in arms.

Because it is not maintaining the status quo. That "small adjustment" defeats the purpose of having a rule that forbids players from bringing their own playmat and their updated rule does nothing to change that. Why is it okay for a player to get an advantage from bringing their own playmat just because it was made by FFG?

What advantage? It's a black mat with a random scattering of stars on it. If you're enough of a genius savant that you can work out exact distances on that surface then you can probably do it on any surface at all.

Also, before you respond, try reading the WHOLE answer that you quote. When I say 'maintaining the status quo WITH A SMALL ADJUSTMENT it's a little nonsensical to reply to me that it hasn't maintained the status quo because there's a change. I know that. It's there in my original statement.

New updated touney rules

In events where players provide their own playmats, only official FFG X-WingTM Playmats are allowed. This is to guarantee a consistent experience for all players and prevent any advantage players may gain from familiarity with a particular playmat that is not widely available. FFG playmats are widely available for examination and play. If a venue provides playmats for their event, they may use third-party playmats. Players may replace third-party playmats if they provide their own FFG playmat to use.

See the sky is not falling.

Still doesn't help here. The venue has no playmats, no local shops have FFG playmats, and no players I know are willing to pay P&P and customs for FFG mats when they already have perfectly decent third party ones.

New updated touney rules

In events where players provide their own playmats, only official FFG X-WingTM Playmats are allowed. This is to guarantee a consistent experience for all players and prevent any advantage players may gain from familiarity with a particular playmat that is not widely available. FFG playmats are widely available for examination and play. If a venue provides playmats for their event, they may use third-party playmats. Players may replace third-party playmats if they provide their own FFG playmat to use.

See the sky is not falling.

Still doesn't help here. The venue has no playmats, no local shops have FFG playmats, and no players I know are willing to pay P&P and customs for FFG mats when they already have perfectly decent third party ones.

Just think a bit creatively: If you (the players) hand over/lend your mats to the TO before the event, then the TO can put the mats out on the tables and technically it is the TO/shop who is providing the mats. From there on it is totally randomized who will play against and where on which mat.

Problem solved

Sorry. Not paying $40 for a playmat. I understand that "you don't have to bring a mat to the game", but don't tell me which company to buy from. There are choices. I know my local community is planning on ignoring this. Mostly because no one cares.

Sorry. Not paying $40 for a playmat. I understand that "you don't have to bring a mat to the game", but don't tell me which company to buy from. There are choices. I know my local community is planning on ignoring this. Mostly because no one cares.

Exactly, no one cares

This will rank up there with the most ignored and unenforceable rules in the history of gaming. So there is absolutely nothing for anyone to make a fuss about.

It's also worth noting that while there are some restrictions on the use of certain playmats, FFG have placed no restrictions whatsoever on the use of Graphical Gaming Tabletop Overlays.

While GGTOs bear a certain superficial similarity to gaming mats in so much as they often have starfield type images and are often 3ft by 3ft in size, they should not be confused with gaming mats as they do not determine the actual play area (although many players can and will mutually agree to use their dimensions as a handy proxy for determining the play area at the beginning of the game).

Edit: So much ninjas.

What advantage? It's a black mat with a random scattering of stars on it. If you're enough of a genius savant that you can work out exact distances on that surface then you can probably do it on any surface at all.

So you don't think that a player can get an advantage by bringing a playmat that they are familiar with. Thanks for making that clear.

Well FFG disagrees with you, which is why they created the playmat rule in the first place. And I disagree with you. Which is why I, unlike you, actually care what the rule says. I want it to be consistent and actually accomplish what was originally intended. It doesn't do that if they make an exception for their own mat. There is nothing magical about FFGs playmat that prevents people from becoming familiar with the distances of the markings on it. And FFGs argument that using their playmat levels the playing field because it is "widely available" is a bunch of self serving nonsense. If I don't own FFGs mat or play regularly with people who do, I will be just as unfamiliar with FFGs playmat as with any 3rd party mat.

Also, before you respond, try reading the WHOLE answer that you quote. When I say 'maintaining the status quo WITH A SMALL ADJUSTMENT it's a little nonsensical to reply to me that it hasn't maintained the status quo because there's a change. I know that. It's there in my original statement.

I read it again and it still contradicts itself, just like the first time I read it. That "small adjustment" matters. You don't think it does because you've made it clear that you don't think players can get an advantage from bringing their own mat, so who cares if FFG makes an exception for their own playmat? I do. And if FFG is concerned about having rules that make sense and not just about pushing sales of their playmats, they should too.

If bringing your own playmat can give an advantage, they should revert the rule back to its original wording that forbid bringing your own mat regardless of manufacturer. OR if bringing your own playmat does not give an advantage they should just delete the rule entirely and let people bring whatever they want. I'd be happy with either outcome. They just need to be consistent.

Sorry. Not paying $40 for a playmat. I understand that "you don't have to bring a mat to the game", but don't tell me which company to buy from. There are choices. I know my local community is planning on ignoring this. Mostly because no one cares.

Exactly, no one cares

This will rank up there with the most ignored and unenforceable rules in the history of gaming. So there is absolutely nothing for anyone to make a fuss about.

Instead of ignoring bad rules and assuming they won't be enforced, we should insist that bad rules be removed or fixed. Any rule is enforceable if the TO decides to enforce it.

I've had two elimination-round matches on the mat I brought to the venue. I'm 0-2 in those games.

If anything, players who have studied Osoroshii's Earning Your Wings thread have a far greater advantage in any tourney than those who have studied a playmat.

New updated touney rules

In events where players provide their own playmats, only official FFG X-WingTM Playmats are allowed. This is to guarantee a consistent experience for all players and prevent any advantage players may gain from familiarity with a particular playmat that is not widely available. FFG playmats are widely available for examination and play. If a venue provides playmats for their event, they may use third-party playmats. Players may replace third-party playmats if they provide their own FFG playmat to use.

See the sky is not falling.

Still doesn't help here. The venue has no playmats, no local shops have FFG playmats, and no players I know are willing to pay P&P and customs for FFG mats when they already have perfectly decent third party ones.

Just think a bit creatively: If you (the players) hand over/lend your mats to the TO before the event, then the TO can put the mats out on the tables and technically it is the TO/shop who is providing the mats. From there on it is totally randomized who will play against and where on which mat.

Problem solved

True, but then we're back to a rule that's completely redundant.

Pretty lame but it is toward tournament play. And im pretty sure TO's are going to use their own mats or square off a black mat to 3x3.... lame FFG but whatever i fly casual more than i tourny so suck a wet fart out of my ass

You are going to have to put better graphics on the mats before i buy one

What advantage? It's a black mat with a random scattering of stars on it. If you're enough of a genius savant that you can work out exact distances on that surface then you can probably do it on any surface at all.

So you don't think that a player can get an advantage by bringing a playmat that they are familiar with. Thanks for making that clear.

Well FFG disagrees with you, which is why they created the playmat rule in the first place. And I disagree with you. Which is why I, unlike you, actually care what the rule says. I want it to be consistent and actually accomplish what was originally intended. It doesn't do that if they make an exception for their own mat. There is nothing magical about FFGs playmat that prevents people from becoming familiar with the distances of the markings on it. And FFGs argument that using their playmat levels the playing field because it is "widely available" is a bunch of self serving nonsense. If I don't own FFGs mat or play regularly with people who do, I will be just as unfamiliar with FFGs playmat as with any 3rd party mat.

Also, before you respond, try reading the WHOLE answer that you quote. When I say 'maintaining the status quo WITH A SMALL ADJUSTMENT it's a little nonsensical to reply to me that it hasn't maintained the status quo because there's a change. I know that. It's there in my original statement.

I read it again and it still contradicts itself, just like the first time I read it. That "small adjustment" matters. You don't think it does because you've made it clear that you don't think players can get an advantage from bringing their own mat, so who cares if FFG makes an exception for their own playmat? I do. And if FFG is concerned about having rules that make sense and not just about pushing sales of their playmats, they should too.

If bringing your own playmat can give an advantage, they should revert the rule back to its original wording that forbid bringing your own mat regardless of manufacturer. OR if bringing your own playmat does not give an advantage they should just delete the rule entirely and let people bring whatever they want. I'd be happy with either outcome. They just need to be consistent.

Pretty sure you and I disagree on the definition of the word 'contradict'. Other words I suspect we would disagree on the definitions of would include 'fun', 'opinion' and 'game'.

But thankfully we will never have to play each other, unless we happen to meet at a tourney, in which case I'll be sure to let you pick whatever damned playing surface you please, for the sake of a quiet life.

Strictly adhering to tournament rules really only applies to Regionals and up. 90% of X-Wing players can safely ignore this. The rest can ignore this 90% of the time.