Well, with scum seeing more play I feel we will see more ps 6-7-8 around.

Also with phantoms having this change. Having ps 10 isn't needed as much any more.

I played against a phantom using the new rules at the weekend. It was the 3-way Bounty Hunt scenario, but it came down to a duel between my Advanced Sensors Guri, and Echo with Advanced Cloak, Sensor Jammer and Intel Agent. Both ships were one shield down.

It was an awesome end game, which involved a lot of thinking:

- My opponent could sometimes see my dial thanks to the Intel agent

- I could see his decloak, and respond by using an Advanced Sensors boost or barrel roll to change my final position

- The Phantom them moved, but could also adjust with a BR

- I'd get a free focus at range 1 - he was much better protected if I hadn't focused, as was I if he's barrel-rolled

The dogfight was absolutely epic, and lasted a good half-hour. In the end I managed to kill Echo at point-blank range after surviving his fire, but it could easily have gone the other way if the dice had been a little different.

Overall the Phantom felt a lot less abusive - still extremely good, but not automatically in the worst possible position each time. I'm 100% certain I couldn't have managed to take it down using the previous rules, as it would have seen my Advanced Sensors move and decloaked accordingly.

I agree that the ship is now a lot more in line with what the game is supposed to be, namely guessing and planning maneuvers. While the cloak mechanics still offer a decent advantage. All in all much better than before.

Perhaps that now finally the phantom IS what the imperial players always claimed it to be. The ultimate ship for skilled players. You have to plan 2 maneuvers ahead and if you do it right you get rewarded hugely. But if you mess up you get punished very hard, landing just in front of that Warthog with your Z-95 statline and no shot to take... This also requires to take barrel roll pretty often, thus minimizing the damage output at least a bit!

Because i have heard before that you needed to be skilled under the old rules. Well no! You looked where the enemy goes and then you adjusted for the kill. I was able to pick the ship up when it came up and finish second in a tournament without a lot of practice. And i am not the best player out there, so something was fishy about the ship!

I'm wondering how people think this amazing blocking will work. It's really easy to tell the decloak positions of a phantom (well, except for echo) so...just don't park your ship there.

I think that's way easier said than done, considering that decloaks are now set up on the previous turn. To avoid getting blocked on turn 2, you have to set your dial guessing where it will decloak/move/barrel roll to on turn 1. Pulling that off, while still having your ship accomplish something useful will be very impressive indeed.

I actually had a funny scenario yesterday in a casual tournament. I was playing against a load Whisper of course, he was in a position where he could not de-cloak left or right due to asteroids. I knew I could block his cloak altogether by moving my Syck right in front of him. So with his front de-cloak blocked he was forced to stay cloaked and just reveal his maneuver. Crazily his maneuver was a K-turn which would have been awesome had he been able to de-cloak forward. He would have likely been out of the rear arc of Boba Fett. Unfortunately, just the standard 4-K put him right into the rear of arc, and on a Seismic charge. The charge went off knocking a shield off, then Boba opened up with 4 attack dice and re-rolls. I was able to land 4 hits to his only 1 evade rolled. Those 3 hits took him out.

Had the new rules been in effect, I wouldn't of been able to block his de-cloak and his 7 speed K-turn would have been awesome.

I played against a phantom using the new rules at the weekend. It was the 3-way Bounty Hunt scenario, but it came down to a duel between my Advanced Sensors Guri, and Echo with Advanced Cloak, Sensor Jammer and Intel Agent. Both ships were one shield down.

It was an awesome end game, which involved a lot of thinking:

- My opponent could sometimes see my dial thanks to the Intel agent

- I could see his decloak, and respond by using an Advanced Sensors boost or barrel roll to change my final position

- The Phantom them moved, but could also adjust with a BR

- I'd get a free focus at range 1 - he was much better protected if I hadn't focused, as was I if he's barrel-rolled

The dogfight was absolutely epic, and lasted a good half-hour. In the end I managed to kill Echo at point-blank range after surviving his fire, but it could easily have gone the other way if the dice had been a little different.

Overall the Phantom felt a lot less abusive - still extremely good, but not automatically in the worst possible position each time. I'm 100% certain I couldn't have managed to take it down using the previous rules, as it would have seen my Advanced Sensors move and decloaked accordingly.

Great write-up! I just started messing around with Phantoms now, and I think I'm going to try your opponent's Echo build. I haven't flown Guri yet either, there's just too many ships to choose from.

It does return Boost Barrel to the largest possible readjust in the game, and that can be dealt with.

I feel like the skill demand of them has gone up though. Wouldn't be surprised to see a few threads claiming the "nerf" has killed it.

You do realize that for about half the Phantom pilots (with little skill) that this IS a nerf!

Hmm....I might actually buy a Phantom now as I won't feel so dirty using it.

I'm most excited to fly builds with genetic phantoms since they aren't really that affected by the nerf, and the ships they have the most trouble with are the supercharged named phantoms. Now that it's actually possible to account for where they'll be, should be less of a hopeless autolose situation. Definitely excited.

2x Sigma Squadron, 2x Intel Agent

4x Academy Pilot

Hmm....
I wonder how PtL and Stygium would work on Echo...

"Yes, I'm getting 3 actions a turn, and its stress free if I go without a Green maneuver, wanna fight about it?"

True, you're actually having to cloak as an action, like a barbarian, but it could still be hella-fun.

Hmm....

I wonder how PtL and Stygium would work on Echo...

"Yes, I'm getting 3 actions a turn, and its stress free if I go without a Green maneuver, wanna fight about it?"

True, you're actually having to cloak as an action, like a barbarian, but it could still be hella-fun.

Apart from imitating a gimped advanced sensors, you get your choice of stacking roll with focus since the only other action is recloaking (stygium's evade is a free action) which doesn't let you shoot that turn.

Could do okay for repositioning ish (you do limit yourself to green manuvers) but you can't action stack like traditional ptl since stygium takes care of it for you

A question for those of you who have played with this change: do you think VI is still an auto include on echo and whisper?

It's still very good but no longer autoinclude. Its advantage is now cloaking before you get shot, rather than being able to reposition based on the other ship's move and cloak before you get shot.

I think that outmaneuver might be better on the new Echo. However, since PS 9+ isn't a requirement to not autolose to a phantom, ps 8 might be even more valuable with players potentially being comfortable flying at 6 or 7 PS.

There is also the option of Adrenaline Rush to open up the k turn.

I think a 36 point Echo with VI and ACD and Intel Agent is still well worth its points.

Echo (VI, ACD)

2x Shadow (IA, ACD)

A ton of fun. Lots of thinking, strategizing, and the feeling of watching your carefully planned maneuvers bear fruit is priceless. IA was "ok". It didn't bring miracles but for 1pt it was helpful now and then.

-Cal

Edit for spelling

I played against a phantom using the new rules at the weekend. It was the 3-way Bounty Hunt scenario, but it came down to a duel between my Advanced Sensors Guri, and Echo with Advanced Cloak, Sensor Jammer and Intel Agent. Both ships were one shield down.

It was an awesome end game, which involved a lot of thinking:

- My opponent could sometimes see my dial thanks to the Intel agent

- I could see his decloak, and respond by using an Advanced Sensors boost or barrel roll to change my final position

- The Phantom them moved, but could also adjust with a BR

- I'd get a free focus at range 1 - he was much better protected if I hadn't focused, as was I if he's barrel-rolled

The dogfight was absolutely epic, and lasted a good half-hour. In the end I managed to kill Echo at point-blank range after surviving his fire, but it could easily have gone the other way if the dice had been a little different.

Overall the Phantom felt a lot less abusive - still extremely good, but not automatically in the worst possible position each time. I'm 100% certain I couldn't have managed to take it down using the previous rules, as it would have seen my Advanced Sensors move and decloaked accordingly.

Great write-up! I just started messing around with Phantoms now, and I think I'm going to try your opponent's Echo build. I haven't flown Guri yet either, there's just too many ships to choose from.

Thanks

It was an amazing end game,with both sides trying furiously to get the upper hand - I had a single hit point at the end after taking a phantom's fire at close range to the face!

Has anyone dorked around with the lower PS Phantoms with Stygium Particle Accelerator using post-nerf rules? It seems like those could be viable now.

They got a free Enhanced Scopes. Makes some play styles more viable.

A question for those of you who have played with this change: do you think VI is still an auto include on echo and whisper?

On Whisper, yes, absolutely. There are a lot of PS 9 pilots, and you need to cloak with ACD before they shoot at you.

On Echo, I don't think it was ever an auto-include. PS 7-8 ships have never been that popular.

OTOH Echo might want VI just to out-ps the bro-bots.

I really feel like if this is how the Phantom was launched, people would be going "woah, that's awesome, it gets a special 2-move boost or barrel roll at the start of the turn and has four attack dice what that's crazy" and people would be freaked out by how awesome it is. As it is, instead, half the forum (this thread notwithstanding) is complaining about how worthless the ship is, now. That just kind of cracks me up.

I really feel like if this is how the Phantom was launched, people would be going "woah, that's awesome, it gets a special 2-move boost or barrel roll at the start of the turn and has four attack dice what that's crazy" and people would be freaked out by how awesome it is. As it is, instead, half the forum (this thread notwithstanding) is complaining about how worthless the ship is, now. That just kind of cracks me up.

when you're so high at the top of the mountain that you are the top of the mountain, there's nowhere to go but down

The change in how decloaking works also changes the viability of pilots and upgrades that allow you to modify your movement during the action phase. Since the decloak movement has already been done before any movement, the area that the Phantom will end at has shrunk. This means that ships with the ability to modify their movement dial can now possible adjusted to be in a good position to shoot at the Phantom during combat phase.

I really like the change. Now I can fly a phantom in a casual game without feeling like a jerk.

I really like the change. Now I can fly a phantom in a casual game without feeling like a jerk.

Totally agree with this.

I dusted off my 3 phantom list last night and narrowly won. It's way more challenging then flying then before and now actually very fun. Although my brain hurt after the game from trying to anticipate my moves and his to counter them.

The change in how decloaking works also changes the viability of pilots and upgrades that allow you to modify your movement during the action phase. Since the decloak movement has already been done before any movement, the area that the Phantom will end at has shrunk. This means that ships with the ability to modify their movement dial can now possible adjusted to be in a good position to shoot at the Phantom during combat phase.

Stay on Target may actually be more useful than just being on Keyan.

I see echo getting more play which is good she's my favourite of the two.

This change seems to bring the risk of running a Phantom in line with the reward.

I really like the change. Now I can fly a phantom in a casual game without feeling like a jerk.

Totally agree with this.

I dusted off my 3 phantom list last night and narrowly won. It's way more challenging then flying then before and now actually very fun. Although my brain hurt after the game from trying to anticipate my moves and his to counter them.