Just finished a game with the new phantom, using Echo, VI, Intelligence Agent, Sensor Jammer and Advanced Cloaking Device.

It's like it's less of a nerf and more of a changed ship. Planning maneuvers is no longer "pick the hard 1 or the two bank and work it out when you do it", you have to plan your entire maneuver then, with your only adjustment being barrel roll (and that as always costs you your action). Where you end up is pretty much defined before dials start flipping up. It's certainly strange planning out a maneuver with two templates.

One thing worth remembering is it still hits just as hard as before. It's still a very good ship, it's just much more of a phantom and less of a Super Interceptor. Intelligence Agent was far less helpful than I anticipated.

The main thing now is that it plays the maneuver game. The phantom's cloak was always "the phantom is in one of these three (or six) positions", except before it was impossible to guess which one as the phantom player could change it. Now you're locked into one decloak and the poker game of guessing maneuvers is very much back: it's possible to guess where it'll go correctly, while before every guess was wrong because the answer changes based on your actions.

My opponent's impression was "it's a hell of a lot less annoying."

Yep, I playtested Whisper with it and it basically just plays like a real X-Wing ship now, you don't get to change your maneuver anymore after you've seen where the opponent's ships have moved without giving up 3 points, your system slot and your action for the turn.

Playing with the new Phantom rules made me realize how broken the old Phantom rules were, and I don't mean overpowered, I mean like, just completely broke how the game is supposed to work where every ship has to lock in its maneuver before getting to see where the other ships have moved.

It does return Boost Barrel to the largest possible readjust in the game, and that can be dealt with.

I feel like the skill demand of them has gone up though. Wouldn't be surprised to see a few threads claiming the "nerf" has killed it.

Has anyone dorked around with the lower PS Phantoms with Stygium Particle Accelerator using post-nerf rules? It seems like those could be viable now.

I think the new rule is more indicative of how cloaking works in the fluff (when you phase out, the pilot is supposed to face some uncertainty as to the positions of ships in the fight, not increased certainty, as was the case prior to the FAQ).

I don't think it'll kill off Phantoms, it'll just close some doors and open up new ones, that's all. Swarmy low PS ships will have a slightly better chance of catching a Phantom, though they will still need to hit it. From an Imperial perspective I think this just means a slight bump in Chiraneau/Soontir Fel lists, and a little more confidence in the swarm. Dash is maybe a little more happy about life for Rebels, and from S&V I think IG-88 likes the new rule best. Anything that makes high PS ships worse at dodging their forward arcs is good news for the so-called Brobots.

Just finished a game with the new phantom, using Echo, VI, Intelligence Agent, Sensor Jammer and Advanced Cloaking Device.

It's like it's less of a nerf and more of a changed ship. Planning maneuvers is no longer "pick the hard 1 or the two bank and work it out when you do it", you have to plan your entire maneuver then, with your only adjustment being barrel roll (and that as always costs you your action). Where you end up is pretty much defined before dials start flipping up. It's certainly strange planning out a maneuver with two templates.

One thing worth remembering is it still hits just as hard as before. It's still a very good ship, it's just much more of a phantom and less of a Super Interceptor. Intelligence Agent was far less helpful than I anticipated.

The main thing now is that it plays the maneuver game. The phantom's cloak was always "the phantom is in one of these three (or six) positions", except before it was impossible to guess which one as the phantom player could change it. Now you're locked into one decloak and the poker game of guessing maneuvers is very much back: it's possible to guess where it'll go correctly, while before every guess was wrong because the answer changes based on your actions.

My opponent's impression was "it's a hell of a lot less annoying."

Wow! I posted something like this in another thread. I agree with everything you said. Plus I actually think it's more fun to play now than before. Harder, but more fun.

My opponent's impression was "it's a hell of a lot less annoying."

ladies and gentlemen, if that is not a resounding endorsement then I don't know what is

Has anyone dorked around with the lower PS Phantoms with Stygium Particle Accelerator using post-nerf rules? It seems like those could be viable now.

Given that Intel Agent still triggers before you decloak, they are hellacious blockers who can use a different system upgrade rather than Enhanced Scopes to make them overall better. They will be even better and they were solid already.

I'm rather tickled how the Phantom went from meta defining to glorified blocker. That's either quite the silver lining, or people are in denial about the severity of the nerf. I wonder, when do we get to hear the cries of ORS aficionados as their preferred tactic is relegated to mediocrity?

I'm rather tickled how the Phantom went from meta defining to glorified blocker. That's either quite the silver lining, or people are in denial about the severity of the nerf. I wonder, when do we get to hear the cries of ORS aficionados as their preferred tactic is relegated to mediocrity?

glorified blocker insofar as blockers have heavy laser cannons stapled to their face

personally prefer my Sigmas with FCS, int agents, and accelerators. They're fragile, but you won't find a greater source of damage for 30 points.

I'm wondering how people think this amazing blocking will work. It's really easy to tell the decloak positions of a phantom (well, except for echo) so...just don't park your ship there.

I'm wondering how people think this amazing blocking will work. It's really easy to tell the decloak positions of a phantom (well, except for echo) so...just don't park your ship there.

so, instead of just becoming a blocker, it'll also function to control the space where it could potentially block ships

that's basically even better than just blocking

Blocking is a valuable ability and will open the door to more varied builds for Phantoms beyond VI+ACD, which BTW is still excellent. Blocker Phantom with Mara Jade and Stygian? Sure, why not?

I only played sigmas, and this rules change leave them unaffected...if not improved.

Having flown six sigma (2 sigma and tooled up echo) in 3 store championship's recently. You shouldn't underestimate the power of a sigma with enhanced scope, Intel agent and spa. These guys are amazing at blocking ships. Each move has 4 start points when cloaked, and can barrel roll from that.

I'm actually considering navigator on echo now instead of rebel captive.

I haven't used phantoms much five games total because my friends couldn't deal with them, with this change I can start using them again.

Has anyone dorked around with the lower PS Phantoms with Stygium Particle Accelerator using post-nerf rules? It seems like those could be viable now.

One the the main weaknesses of the generic Phantom were supercharged named ones. Now that they'll be seen less often/aren't a straight up autowin against a generic Phantom, generic Phantom receives a buff.

Decloak nerf doesn't seem like as much as a nerf if you're not flying ACD. For example, 4x Sigma cloaks up in formation, and then in the approach on the first engagement they'll decloak and fire. Generally you only cloak with them if they end up out of position and unable to fire, so they'll often be uncloaked and maneuvering normally.

*smacks head with palm* You're flying at PS 3, you so were probably decloaking before anything of your opponent's moved anyways. Maybe we'll see more Shadow Squadron.

I don't think the new decloak turns all phantoms into blockers, that's a silly notion. It does give them an extra trick when it comes to the joust. If a decloak will block the optimal movement for your opponents ship, by all means take it, but I don't think that's their primary role unless you specifically build for it.

I haven't used phantoms much five games total because my friends couldn't deal with them, with this change I can start using them again.

In that same boat my man...I'll just need to explain the ruling to my group now and if the generic turns out to be effective I may need to invest in a second phantom...

I haven't used phantoms much five games total because my friends couldn't deal with them, with this change I can start using them again.

In that same boat my man...I'll just need to explain the ruling to my group now and if the generic turns out to be effective I may need to invest in a second phantom...

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/133413-a-different-type-of-swarm/

I highly recommend this thread and the build he came up with, a fun build that is also competitive. It's 99 points, so put Intel agent on your Sigma.

I really just want to bump this thread. There are at least a few people around here who really need to get the Phantom on the table before they continue complaining about the balance change--and if they can't do that, they should at least pay attention to those who have had it on the table.

It's still a ship with 4 Attack. If you invest in Whisper + Veteran Instincts, it's still usually a ship with 4 Attack and 4 Agility. The Phantom is certainly less powerful than before, but it's very far from a paperweight.

I haven't used phantoms much five games total because my friends couldn't deal with them, with this change I can start using them again.

In that same boat my man...I'll just need to explain the ruling to my group now and if the generic turns out to be effective I may need to invest in a second phantom...

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/133413-a-different-type-of-swarm/

I highly recommend this thread and the build he came up with, a fun build that is also competitive. It's 99 points, so put Intel agent on your Sigma.

I'll scope that out goomba thanks! :-)

The PS 9 4/4/2/2 statline for 37 points is strong regardless of positioning shenanigans. You really can afford to take a few shots now and then so long as you're not suffering concentrated fire.

A question for those of you who have played with this change: do you think VI is still an auto include on echo and whisper?

A question for those of you who have played with this change: do you think VI is still an auto include on echo and whisper?

On Whisper, yes, absolutely. There are a lot of PS 9 pilots, and you need to cloak with ACD before they shoot at you.

On Echo, I don't think it was ever an auto-include. PS 7-8 ships have never been that popular.