I like the fact that the hero of Star Wars, Han Solo, has such a good ship.

Now to properly nerf Soontir, so that Darth Vader can take his rightful place at the top

unnecessary

Vader's viability is riding in style towards our tabletops, we need only be patient

Vader will get his place when the Raider comes out!

I don't think turrets need a fix. they just got nerfed some with autothrusters, and that was a good move (as is the phantom adjustment). If turrets were really the issue, we'd see decimators and dash dominating right along with han, but we don't.

In a vacuum, turrets are powerful but not OP. Decimators have 0 ag with no evade action, they go down like the Hindenburg under focused fire. 2400's have the doughnuthole+lowish piloting skill and HATE stress. They have both strengths and weaknesses to keep them in check, they're what you'd call "balanced". Han has virtually no weaknesses, yet a dozen and a half strengths already listed in previous posts. The addition of the Z95 is what helped throw it off the rails, as you can now bring 3 additional blockers to make it that much more difficult to corner the dorner.

that's how you beat him and the only way to beat fat turrets in general (and why I find them so ******* boring). they have every advantage in the book, but you set them down in a straight dice-off with 2-3 B-wings and you will realize why BBBBZ is a thing

As an Imperial/scum player, I NEVER attempt jousting, especially not against anything that starts with B.

they could atleast do it like this: if a turret ship is firing outside of its firing arc give the defender 1 bonus evade die so at range 3 + 2 defense dies

or if he fires out of firing arc reduce attack value by 1. something like that a little nerf dammit.

i fly everything in my Imperial fleet except of Phantoms cause my friends told me to stop using em and i did. sure the phantoms movement was pretty amazing and strong i managed more than 5 times to fight alone against 4 enemy small ships with the phantom now its will be trikier and i might put him back on the table cause it will be a challenge now to fly em.

i demand a turret nerf !!

i apologize for my rage + bed engrish sorry english is just one of the 5 languages i speak and its not that easy to get grammer correct iam still learning english ;P

IMO most painless way to balance turrets is to change the R1 rule so the target must be in a firing arc(Primary or Aux) to get the +1 red die.

Great minds think alike. I said the same thing in #43 of this thread and about 2 other threads weeks ago. It's just makes sense. Bring back the skill of the pilot to make him earn the bonus.

yeah i didnt read the full thread. i like the idea u posted on page 3 its a litte nerf but gives the turret player the option to fly as usual without range bonus or try to get his enemies inside his primary firing arc and get the range 1 bonus. thats really cool IMO

Any list with 4+ attacks of 3 will eat Fat Han for breakfast. Any combination of Generic: B wings, Xwings, Interceptors, Phantoms, Post-Raider Tie Advances, Heavy Scyks, and Star Vipers will do great against Fat Han.

It's this whole 2-3 ship build mentality that has gotten so pervasive recently that limits our effectiveness vs Fat Han. (Double Murder Pancakes on the other hand, is a bit triksier).

And its also a roundabout buff to Firesprays.

Any list with 4+ attacks of 3 will eat Fat Han for breakfast. Any combination of Generic: B wings, Xwings, Interceptors, Phantoms, Post-Raider Tie Advances, Heavy Scyks, and Star Vipers will do great against Fat Han.

It's this whole 2-3 ship build mentality that has gotten so pervasive recently that limits our effectiveness vs Fat Han. (Double Murder Pancakes on the other hand, is a bit triksier).

...wat. Almost none of the top 32 lists in 2014 were 2-3 ship lists, with the exception of Han lists. Most were 4-6 mini-swarm lists.

I like the fact that the hero of Star Wars, Han Solo, has such a good ship.

Now to properly nerf Soontir, so that Darth Vader can take his rightful place at the top

Oddly enough it is the threat of Vader crew that will make Vader a safer choice than Soontir.

Vader is pretty good though.

Not so here, turrets became popular when C3PO was released. That they were also a strong counter to Phantoms, when they were released, was just an added bonus.

Start running more than 2 or 3 ships

I am a swarm player, I cannot get more than 7 with Howlrunner..

Then Falcons should pose no problem.

And its also a roundabout buff to Firesprays.

Any list with 4+ attacks of 3 will eat Fat Han for breakfast. Any combination of Generic: B wings, Xwings, Interceptors, Phantoms, Post-Raider Tie Advances, Heavy Scyks, and Star Vipers will do great against Fat Han.

It's this whole 2-3 ship build mentality that has gotten so pervasive recently that limits our effectiveness vs Fat Han. (Double Murder Pancakes on the other hand, is a bit triksier).

...wat. Almost none of the top 32 lists in 2014 were 2-3 ship lists, with the exception of Han lists. Most were 4-6 mini-swarm lists.

With the exception of over half the lists, most where mini swarms! ... That reasoning is kinda flawed there buddy. Turrets have been part of this game and will continue to be. Fat hans much like phantoms aren't scary. Yes they are tough, but they suffer from counters all around.

Then Falcons should pose no problem.

There are more than one problem, imho, the biggest one in this case - is called the timer.

The 60 minute variant in particular but also in general.

A better turret 'fix', leave everything as is and see how the meta develops with a third faction, auto thrusters, and the phantom 'nerf'

You may be right about this. But getting a +1 for 360 range one. Turrets are the only ships that get that. I think forcing them to fly and keep enemies in Primary Arc's just like every other ship in the game, is something that would make sense.

No... no it wouldn't "make sense". It might work as a game mechanic. And it might make the game more like what you think it should be by emphasizing what you enjoy most about it but...

... it noes NOT... "make more sense". How, in the "real world" (or even in SW universe fluff) does this make a lick of "sense"?

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a turret facing fix.

Falcons are fun to play with AND against. I know, I hopped right off the bandwagon of Falcon-hate there, but hey, I like being the Rebel.

Other than that, all the tears here are amusing

RoV

Falcons are fun to play with AND against. I know, I hopped right off the bandwagon of Falcon-hate there, but hey, I like being the Rebel.

Other than that, all the tears here are amusing

RoV

As was the tears over the Phantom, and look where that got us.

The "nerf" too phantoms is also a nerf to turret ships because now their natural predator the swarm will return with new tricks like the feedback array which bypasses evade tokens and 3PO.

Falcons are fun to play with AND against.

As long as turrets are slightly less powerful than arc'd guns, I'm ok. Sure you can HLC an Outrider, but you'll pay for it.

My only problem with turrets are Exposed Decimators. To gain an extra die, something should be taken away. Maybe errata Exposed to say "only if you can take one agility away."

We do for obstruction and range 3's. Just take us at range. don't go slamming up on us and putting 5 dice in our hand. I see nothing wrong with decimator and expose. otherwise you have to sink 15+ points into it to do what that one card did and risk losing 60+ points of one ship that can't even defend itself.

Falcons are fun to play with AND against.

I brought a deci out on a mission to kill a GR75 yesterday with the ruthless brigade (125 points, so 5 black squadron with ruthless, for the luls). the patrol leader with target lock just reliably wrecked the GR in no time. The Black SQ did all the bonus damage to the escorts (so funny). Yeah, I do think that removing the range 1 bonus unless in arc would better balance the turrets, since honestly I thought that deci was too good, even if it was 40 points.

Additionally, this "fix" should it happen will not effect the y-wings, HWKs and Scumhotshots, as the ion turrets, blaster turrets, hotshot and autoblaster turrets are secondary weapons - therefore do not benefit from the range one advantage anyway, if anything this makes it almost thematic for primary turrets to lose their range 1 unless in arc.

Am I the only one hoping some new wave 7 ordnance will help take the large based turrets down a notch? I hold no ill will toward Y-wings and HWKs with range two turrets, but I wouldn't mind seeing fewer pancakes (and Decis).

Am I the only one hoping some new wave 7 ordnance

Was that confirmed for wave 7? Bomber aces ftw.

I love turret ships. My scum swarm eats them for breakfast.

A better turret 'fix', leave everything as is and see how the meta develops with a third faction, auto thrusters, and the phantom 'nerf'

You may be right about this. But getting a +1 for 360 range one. Turrets are the only ships that get that. I think forcing them to fly and keep enemies in Primary Arc's just like every other ship in the game, is something that would make sense.

No... no it wouldn't "make sense". It might work as a game mechanic. And it might make the game more like what you think it should be by emphasizing what you enjoy most about it but...

... it noes NOT... "make more sense". How, in the "real world" (or even in SW universe fluff) does this make a lick of "sense"?

Gun traverse... front to back shooting makes leading a target way way easier.

If you want to see turreted ships drop, all you have to do is introduce partial points into competitive play.