Everyone talks **** about Fat Han being so hard to beat. I don't understand it.

...because the list won worlds a few months ago and still continues to do work at local tournies.

A Fat Falcon won Worlds but a huge number of Fat Falcons did not. Paul Heaver won Worlds, and he did it with a Fat Falcon kitted out to kill other Fat Falcons.

There are a lot of successful Fat Falcons and there are a lot of Fail Falcons, because there are a lot of Fat Falcons.

Sorry, but that's some pretty funky logic. The reason you saw so many people chose to play Fat Falcons and Phantoms as opposed to Tie Advanced or HWK swarms is because they are just that **** good. Too good, as recent nerfs/upgrades would imply. The players flying Han who didn't make it may have gotten out-flown, or simply had bad luck. A Tie Interceptor list would never have had the same chance of making worlds as a Fat Han list, regardless of who flew it. In fact, if half(or all) the players in the world chose to play just 1 ship, then it would suggest they all agreed that 1 ship was the best chance at winning(using your example). Paul still flew against plenty of other ships beyond Falcons, yet his "Falcon-busting" ship still managed to mop up everything else even without the benefit of gunner or Luke. Again, I wouldn't have too much of a problem if both or neither got nerfed, but to hit the Phantom but not the World Champion Fat Han himself is a bit mad.

Just fly more ships at it

Everyone talks **** about Fat Han being so hard to beat. I don't understand it.

...because the list won worlds a few months ago and still continues to do work at local tournies.

A Fat Falcon won Worlds but a huge number of Fat Falcons did not. Paul Heaver won Worlds, and he did it with a Fat Falcon kitted out to kill other Fat Falcons.

There are a lot of successful Fat Falcons and there are a lot of Fail Falcons, because there are a lot of Fat Falcons.

Sorry, but that's some pretty funky logic. The reason you saw so many people chose to play Fat Falcons and Phantoms as opposed to Tie Advanced or HWK swarms is because they are just that **** good. Too good, as recent nerfs/upgrades would imply. The players flying Han who didn't make it may have gotten out-flown, or simply had bad luck. A Tie Interceptor list would never have had the same chance of making worlds as a Fat Han list, regardless of who flew it. In fact, if half(or all) the players in the world chose to play just 1 ship, then it would suggest they all agreed that 1 ship was the best chance at winning(using your example). Paul still flew against plenty of other ships beyond Falcons, yet his "Falcon-busting" ship still managed to mop up everything else even without the benefit of gunner or Luke. Again, I wouldn't have too much of a problem if both or neither got nerfed, but to hit the Phantom but not the World Champion Fat Han himself is a bit mad.

it's no necessarily funky

Fat Han doesn't have to be stupid effective for him to be popular, even if heaver has flown other less popular builds

Imo, Han's popularity doesn't come necessarily from his effectiveness but more so that he's the easiest ******* ship in the game to fly

Han is perhaps the ship that gives the least of a **** for all of the game's rules:

1.) Bumping/Obstructions/Stress? C3po and R2-d2 screw, predator/han's ability, gunner/luke etc. none of them give a **** about han preforming actions. He cares about obstructions only slightly more than Dash (neither can fire when parked atop a space peanut)

2.) Firing arc? Hah! The ease of the 360 is further extunated in that:

--> he can arc dodge in any direction without any real consequence because he's guaranteed to have a shot

--> he can get blocked to have horrible facing and still never give up a shot

--> he can shoot first (yay movie reference!) and potentially blow up any attacker regardless of their angle of approach before they get a shot

Fat Han is the single most forgiving ship in the game and undoubtedly the easiest to fly at the base level

Now, I want to stress that I don't want to take away from anyone's accomplishments if they've won games with fat han.

Every game needs to have pieces that are of varying degrees of difficult to utilize, and just because one flies a forgiving piece it doesn't make them less "skilled." You still need to counter the opponent and out-predict them in order to avoid getting drowned in dice. You need to be practiced with the fattie to do well competitively and an experienced player will still steamroll a novice fat han or no.

All I'm saying is that Fat Han just gives said novice the best chance of winning because it'll ignore the highest amount of piloting errors out of all ships in the game. He takes effort to use effectively, he just takes the least amount. This is most likely why he's so popular, and why not every single fat falcon is busting through the top. We'll see tons because there are tons of lists with them in it, but he's not a free win ticket.

He's still the most ungodly boring pain in the ass to play against so I'd rather not see him, but from a balance perspective he's not that huge a deal.

Everyone talks **** about Fat Han being so hard to beat. I don't understand it.

...because the list won worlds a few months ago and still continues to do work at local tournies.

A Fat Falcon won Worlds but a huge number of Fat Falcons did not. Paul Heaver won Worlds, and he did it with a Fat Falcon kitted out to kill other Fat Falcons.

There are a lot of successful Fat Falcons and there are a lot of Fail Falcons, because there are a lot of Fat Falcons.

Sorry, but that's some pretty funky logic. The reason you saw so many people chose to play Fat Falcons and Phantoms as opposed to Tie Advanced or HWK swarms is because they are just that **** good. Too good, as recent nerfs/upgrades would imply. The players flying Han who didn't make it may have gotten out-flown, or simply had bad luck. A Tie Interceptor list would never have had the same chance of making worlds as a Fat Han list, regardless of who flew it. In fact, if half(or all) the players in the world chose to play just 1 ship, then it would suggest they all agreed that 1 ship was the best chance at winning(using your example). Paul still flew against plenty of other ships beyond Falcons, yet his "Falcon-busting" ship still managed to mop up everything else even without the benefit of gunner or Luke. Again, I wouldn't have too much of a problem if both or neither got nerfed, but to hit the Phantom but not the World Champion Fat Han himself is a bit mad.

it's no necessarily funky

Fat Han doesn't have to be stupid effective for him to be popular, even if heaver has flown other less popular builds

Imo, Han's popularity doesn't come necessarily from his effectiveness but more so that he's the easiest ******* ship in the game to fly

Han is perhaps the ship that gives the least of a **** for all of the game's rules:

1.) Bumping/Obstructions/Stress? C3po and R2-d2 screw, predator/han's ability, gunner/luke etc. none of them give a **** about han preforming actions. He cares about obstructions only slightly more than Dash (neither can fire when parked atop a space peanut)

2.) Firing arc? Hah! The ease of the 360 is further extunated in that:

--> he can arc dodge in any direction without any real consequence because he's guaranteed to have a shot

--> he can get blocked to have horrible facing and still never give up a shot

--> he can shoot first (yay movie reference!) and potentially blow up any attacker regardless of their angle of approach before they get a shot

Fat Han is the single most forgiving ship in the game and undoubtedly the easiest to fly at the base level

Now, I want to stress that I don't want to take away from anyone's accomplishments if they've won games with fat han.

Every game needs to have pieces that are of varying degrees of difficult to utilize, and just because one flies a forgiving piece it doesn't make them less "skilled." You still need to counter the opponent and out-predict them in order to avoid getting drowned in dice. You need to be practiced with the fattie to do well competitively and an experienced player will still steamroll a novice fat han or no.

All I'm saying is that Fat Han just gives said novice the best chance of winning because it'll ignore the highest amount of piloting errors out of all ships in the game. He takes effort to use effectively, he just takes the least amount. This is most likely why he's so popular, and why not every single fat falcon is busting through the top. We'll see tons because there are tons of lists with them in it, but he's not a free win ticket.

He's still the most ungodly boring pain in the ass to play against so I'd rather not see him, but from a balance perspective he's not that huge a deal.

Set up a dense field and make him have to come at you through the rocks. A good player will be fine but novices will be landing on rocks. Yes he can boost but you should take that into account when picking your maneuvers. Use the stress bot to slow them down because falcons want use there actions to either evade or boost so making them have to do greens makes them easier to predict. Playing 8 ties or 8 zs is the most boring thing to play against.

I love playing against 8 ties

it's great because you really have to abuse the asteroid field to force the swarm to break up and engage them piece-meal in order to avoid being overwhelmed. There are also priority targets that aren't dictated by simple pilot abilities, such as those ties that manage to sneak in close or have a focus up and ready for their attacks, leading to some very clutch decision making

I'll take a tie swarm any day of the ******* week rather than having to yawn through another mind-numbing dice grind against fat han

They're also very fun TO play because of all the ships you have to manage, but I don't play them often because I'm not good enough to run that many ships for that long and I get mentally exhausted by them pretty quickly

He's still the most ungodly boring pain in the ass to play against so I'd rather not see him, but from a balance perspective he's not that huge a deal.

None of my games against Falcons/turrets have ever been boring. Maybe it is just a perspective thing. Of course, I was also flying against them in the golden age of the Double Falcon.

He's still the most ungodly boring pain in the ass to play against so I'd rather not see him, but from a balance perspective he's not that huge a deal.

None of my games against Falcons/turrets have ever been boring. Maybe it is just a perspective thing. Of course, I was also flying against them in the golden age of the Double Falcon.

fun is inherently subjective, so I can't blame you

whenever I talk about them, we all have to take my opinions with a grain of salt because I type "imo" and "personally" etc. as much as I can, but they often get lost in the sea of posts (jesus that post count)

To set the record straight: I, ficklegreendice, am explicitly and admittedly and shamelessly biased against turrets and honestly believe that the game would be better off if the Decimator, the Yt-1300, and the outrider title were just erased from existence because I find them to be the single sore point in an otherwise amazing experience

Here's the thing. If you don't like turrets, and want to beat them, there is one very simple fix: learn to fly B-wings. B-wings literally eat fat turrets for breakfast. Remember the wave 3 meta? Where were the falcons? The B-wings killed them. The reason B-wings went away was that they were scared of the phantoms. The really good B-wing players could deal with phantoms, but most could not. Now, with the phantoms nerfed, the B-wings will come back in their natural role as turret predators. Here are a couple ideas: Biggs+2x daggers+rookie, 4x blue with AdvS, 4x blue + Z, 3xblue with FCS+roark with ion and chewie.

Everyone talks **** about Fat Han being so hard to beat. I don't understand it.

...because the list won worlds a few months ago and still continues to do work at local tournies.

A Fat Falcon won Worlds but a huge number of Fat Falcons did not. Paul Heaver won Worlds, and he did it with a Fat Falcon kitted out to kill other Fat Falcons.

There are a lot of successful Fat Falcons and there are a lot of Fail Falcons, because there are a lot of Fat Falcons.

Sorry, but that's some pretty funky logic. The reason you saw so many people chose to play Fat Falcons and Phantoms as opposed to Tie Advanced or HWK swarms is because they are just that **** good. Too good, as recent nerfs/upgrades would imply. The players flying Han who didn't make it may have gotten out-flown, or simply had bad luck. A Tie Interceptor list would never have had the same chance of making worlds as a Fat Han list, regardless of who flew it. In fact, if half(or all) the players in the world chose to play just 1 ship, then it would suggest they all agreed that 1 ship was the best chance at winning(using your example). Paul still flew against plenty of other ships beyond Falcons, yet his "Falcon-busting" ship still managed to mop up everything else even without the benefit of gunner or Luke. Again, I wouldn't have too much of a problem if both or neither got nerfed, but to hit the Phantom but not the World Champion Fat Han himself is a bit mad.

Imo, Han's popularity doesn't come necessarily from his effectiveness but more so that he's the easiest ******* ship in the game to fly

Agree 100%, and that is perhaps the even bigger problem. IMO, there should always be a balance between ease of use and overall effectiveness. Phantoms are(were?) extremely effective, but had plenty of counters and require at least a decent degree of skill and luck to win games. Han requires neither skill nor luck to be effective, but when combined with skill and luck, he can be very difficult to remove from the table, especially in a timed match. Game balance=/=unbeatable. Phantoms were not unbeatable, but got a deserved nerf for being too powerful, the same should go for Han.

Yeah but with this change would only be able to boost straight forward.

I thought about this change too, but it really kills the shuttle and IG-2000s.

I don't think turrets need a fix. they just got nerfed some with autothrusters, and that was a good move (as is the phantom adjustment). If turrets were really the issue, we'd see decimators and dash dominating right along with han, but we don't.

In a vacuum, turrets are powerful but not OP. Decimators have 0 ag with no evade action, they go down like the Hindenburg under focused fire. 2400's have the doughnuthole+lowish piloting skill and HATE stress. They have both strengths and weaknesses to keep them in check, they're what you'd call "balanced". Han has virtually no weaknesses, yet a dozen and a half strengths already listed in previous posts. The addition of the Z95 is what helped throw it off the rails, as you can now bring 3 additional blockers to make it that much more difficult to corner the dorner.

I don't think turrets need a fix. they just got nerfed some with autothrusters, and that was a good move (as is the phantom adjustment). If turrets were really the issue, we'd see decimators and dash dominating right along with han, but we don't.

In a vacuum, turrets are powerful but not OP. Decimators have 0 ag with no evade action, they go down like the Hindenburg under focused fire. 2400's have the doughnuthole+lowish piloting skill and HATE stress. They have both strengths and weaknesses to keep them in check, they're what you'd call "balanced". Han has virtually no weaknesses, yet a dozen and a half strengths already listed in previous posts. The addition of the Z95 is what helped throw it off the rails, as you can now bring 3 additional blockers to make it that much more difficult to corner the dorner.

Han has one massive weakness: his point cost

that's how you beat him and the only way to beat fat turrets in general (and why I find them so ******* boring). they have every advantage in the book, but you set them down in a straight dice-off with 2-3 B-wings and you will realize why BBBBZ is a thing

Also, Stress helps. It's not crippling like it is on top of PTL stress or against phantoms, but it does heavily limit the fatty's ability to maneuver. Either he resorts to his limited greens, or he forgoes his evade/boost action. A bank + boost still takes him far, but not as far as a higher speed maneuver or a hard turn and a boost.

sure and nice to read all those turret lovers to not want a change for thier so loved 360 i dont care fighters and that they loved the phantom nerf much. stop rubbing ure hands now guys iam sure 360 turret ships will be the next target and i hope and wish to see a nerf that hits those ships as hard as it did to the phantom. sure the nerf will encurage to get the new tie advances soon in thier lists but that nerf is to xtreme.

THE MOVEMENT WAS EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME BACK IN wave 1 - 3 !!! MOVEMENT SKILLZ !!!

its not like: oh hey i moved backwards with my 20-ish hp 360 ship oh hey i dont care pew pew pew.

they could atleast do it like this: if a turret ship is firing outside of its firing arc give the defender 1 bonus evade die so at range 3 + 2 defense dies

or if he fires out of firing arc reduce attack value by 1. something like that a little nerf dammit.

i fly everything in my Imperial fleet except of Phantoms cause my friends told me to stop using em and i did. sure the phantoms movement was pretty amazing and strong i managed more than 5 times to fight alone against 4 enemy small ships with the phantom now its will be trikier and i might put him back on the table cause it will be a challenge now to fly em.

i demand a turret nerf !!

i apologize for my rage + bad engrish sorry english is just one of the 5 languages i speak and its not that easy to get grammer correct iam still learning english ;P

I don't think turrets need a fix. they just got nerfed some with autothrusters, and that was a good move (as is the phantom adjustment). If turrets were really the issue, we'd see decimators and dash dominating right along with han, but we don't.

In a vacuum, turrets are powerful but not OP. Decimators have 0 ag with no evade action, they go down like the Hindenburg under focused fire. 2400's have the doughnuthole+lowish piloting skill and HATE stress. They have both strengths and weaknesses to keep them in check, they're what you'd call "balanced". Han has virtually no weaknesses, yet a dozen and a half strengths already listed in previous posts. The addition of the Z95 is what helped throw it off the rails, as you can now bring 3 additional blockers to make it that much more difficult to corner the dorner.

that's how you beat him and the only way to beat fat turrets in general (and why I find them so ******* boring). they have every advantage in the book, but you set them down in a straight dice-off with 2-3 B-wings and you will realize why BBBBZ is a thing

As an Imperial/scum player, I NEVER attempt jousting, especially not against anything that starts with B.

they could atleast do it like this: if a turret ship is firing outside of its firing arc give the defender 1 bonus evade die so at range 3 + 2 defense dies

or if he fires out of firing arc reduce attack value by 1. something like that a little nerf dammit.

i fly everything in my Imperial fleet except of Phantoms cause my friends told me to stop using em and i did. sure the phantoms movement was pretty amazing and strong i managed more than 5 times to fight alone against 4 enemy small ships with the phantom now its will be trikier and i might put him back on the table cause it will be a challenge now to fly em.

i demand a turret nerf !!

i apologize for my rage + bed engrish sorry english is just one of the 5 languages i speak and its not that easy to get grammer correct iam still learning english ;P

IMO most painless way to balance turrets is to change the R1 rule so the target must be in a firing arc(Primary or Aux) to get the +1 red die.

IMO most painless way to balance turrets is to change the R1 rule so the target must be in a firing arc(Primary or Aux) to get the +1 red die.

that would help aswell yeah like that too well iam 100% sure that turrets are next. i hate turret huge ships since the very beginning they entered this game. smal turreted ships iam fine with cause u pay to get the turret but turret primary is very mean and then up to 20-ish HP bar ( i know that htere isnt a ship with 20-ish hit points hope u get what i mean )

Edit: I lurked around for to long its time to show myself to the World and share my Opinion

I don't think turrets need a fix. they just got nerfed some with autothrusters, and that was a good move (as is the phantom adjustment). If turrets were really the issue, we'd see decimators and dash dominating right along with han, but we don't.

In a vacuum, turrets are powerful but not OP. Decimators have 0 ag with no evade action, they go down like the Hindenburg under focused fire. 2400's have the doughnuthole+lowish piloting skill and HATE stress. They have both strengths and weaknesses to keep them in check, they're what you'd call "balanced". Han has virtually no weaknesses, yet a dozen and a half strengths already listed in previous posts. The addition of the Z95 is what helped throw it off the rails, as you can now bring 3 additional blockers to make it that much more difficult to corner the dorner.

that's how you beat him and the only way to beat fat turrets in general (and why I find them so ******* boring). they have every advantage in the book, but you set them down in a straight dice-off with 2-3 B-wings and you will realize why BBBBZ is a thing

As an Imperial/scum player, I NEVER attempt jousting, especially not against anything that starts with B.

well aye, you'd be a fool to do so

that's where the "gameplay" comes in (though in heavy quotation marks, because basically all my games against turrets have been my ships banking or turning at speed 1-2 and waiting for the falcon to do his crap and then unloading with whatever I have in arc. Rinse and repeat ad nausea, which does not take long to set in)

Turrets don't joust, it defeats the purpose of having a turret. Of course, for all of engine's large base displacing prowess, the large base is still a large target to draw arcs on. Fat Han's fatness is another weakness of his

I think scum can "joust" B-wings just fine, "joust" being in quotations because ionized B-wings don't actually joust as much as they continuously take damage as they driftt uselessly through space with a BLT-A4 ICT Y-wing on their butt

With phantoms being trickier to use their popularity will decline so swarms will reamerge which will in turn reduce falcon numbers and lead to a greater variety of lists.

Everyone knows I'm not a turret fan because they invalidate good flying, Autothrusters fixed this nicely for ships that can boost and they are also going to eat turret ships alive.

Also now you can stress large ships with cannons that'll help big time.

The stagnation of wave four will end without nerfing turrets.

i apologize for my rage + bad engrish sorry english is just one of the 5 languages i speak and its not that easy to get grammer correct iam still learning english ;P

Your English obviously isn't perfect, but it gets your point across.

sure and nice to read all those turret lovers to not want a change for thier so loved 360...

It has nothing to do with being a turret lover, because I've run them enough to know I'd rather have lots of little ships rather than one fat one.

stop rubbing ure hands now guys iam sure 360 turret ships will be the next target and i hope and wish to see a nerf that hits those ships as hard as it did to the phantom. sure the nerf will encurage to get the new tie advances soon in thier lists but that nerf is to xtreme.

The Phantom's nerf is actually nice and subtle. It doesn't change anything about the fighter's stat line or cost or actions, just timing and information.

THE MOVEMENT WAS EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME BACK IN wave 1 - 3 !!! MOVEMENT SKILLZ !!!

Turrets have been part of the game literally since the first day. They were less powerful than swarms in Wave 1, so they didn't show up much. Turret primary weapons showed up for the first time in Wave 2, but still weren't a match for a well-flown swarm list. B-wings helped keep them pushed down in Wave 3.

And then something happened in Wave 4 that scared lots of people into running turrets pretty much all the time. Fixing that "something" should help fix turrets, too.

We may see interceptors emerge as the new swarm counter

they require far more attention to make work, but I know for certain that swarms detest shooting at 3+ agility with 2 dice.

now that turrets don't just curbstomp them merely for existing, we'll probably see more Interceptors

sure and nice to read all those turret lovers to not want a change for thier so loved 360 i dont care fighters and that they loved the phantom nerf much. stop rubbing ure hands now guys iam sure 360 turret ships will be the next target and i hope and wish to see a nerf that hits those ships as hard as it did to the phantom. sure the nerf will encurage to get the new tie advances soon in thier lists but that nerf is to xtreme.

THE MOVEMENT WAS EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME BACK IN wave 1 - 3 !!! MOVEMENT SKILLZ !!!

its not like: oh hey i moved backwards with my 20-ish hp 360 ship oh hey i dont care pew pew pew.

they could atleast do it like this: if a turret ship is firing outside of its firing arc give the defender 1 bonus evade die so at range 3 + 2 defense dies

or if he fires out of firing arc reduce attack value by 1. something like that a little nerf dammit.

i fly everything in my Imperial fleet except of Phantoms cause my friends told me to stop using em and i did. sure the phantoms movement was pretty amazing and strong i managed more than 5 times to fight alone against 4 enemy small ships with the phantom now its will be trikier and i might put him back on the table cause it will be a challenge now to fly em.

i demand a turret nerf !!

i apologize for my rage + bad engrish sorry english is just one of the 5 languages i speak and its not that easy to get grammer correct iam still learning english ;P

Remembers the summer of 2013, aka the summer of the double Falcons at Regionals (now Store Championships). I understand people's complaints about the turrets, but let's not paint the Wave 2 era as being any better than what it is now.

Hell, the complaints about the turret primary has existed since day one. The Falcon has always been thought of as "easy mode". My experiences against it prove that it is anything but.

sure and nice to read all those turret lovers to not want a change for thier so loved 360 i dont care fighters and that they loved the phantom nerf much. stop rubbing ure hands now guys iam sure 360 turret ships will be the next target and i hope and wish to see a nerf that hits those ships as hard as it did to the phantom. sure the nerf will encurage to get the new tie advances soon in thier lists but that nerf is to xtreme.

THE MOVEMENT WAS EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME BACK IN wave 1 - 3 !!! MOVEMENT SKILLZ !!!

its not like: oh hey i moved backwards with my 20-ish hp 360 ship oh hey i dont care pew pew pew.

they could atleast do it like this: if a turret ship is firing outside of its firing arc give the defender 1 bonus evade die so at range 3 + 2 defense dies

or if he fires out of firing arc reduce attack value by 1. something like that a little nerf dammit.

i fly everything in my Imperial fleet except of Phantoms cause my friends told me to stop using em and i did. sure the phantoms movement was pretty amazing and strong i managed more than 5 times to fight alone against 4 enemy small ships with the phantom now its will be trikier and i might put him back on the table cause it will be a challenge now to fly em.

i demand a turret nerf !!

i apologize for my rage + bad engrish sorry english is just one of the 5 languages i speak and its not that easy to get grammer correct iam still learning english ;P

U mad bro

...is a message I just received from a friend on my phone. Thoughts, people?

Hurray...

U mad bro

and ure just one little cool acting guy or what ? yeah i already stated that iam raging and even apologized for it. being mad is another thing captian obvious

I like the fact that the hero of Star Wars, Han Solo, has such a good ship.

Now to properly nerf Soontir, so that Darth Vader can take his rightful place at the top

I don't think turrets need a fix. they just got nerfed some with autothrusters, and that was a good move (as is the phantom adjustment). If turrets were really the issue, we'd see decimators and dash dominating right along with han, but we don't.

In a vacuum, turrets are powerful but not OP. Decimators have 0 ag with no evade action, they go down like the Hindenburg under focused fire. 2400's have the doughnuthole+lowish piloting skill and HATE stress. They have both strengths and weaknesses to keep them in check, they're what you'd call "balanced". Han has virtually no weaknesses, yet a dozen and a half strengths already listed in previous posts. The addition of the Z95 is what helped throw it off the rails, as you can now bring 3 additional blockers to make it that much more difficult to corner the dorner.

that's how you beat him and the only way to beat fat turrets in general (and why I find them so ******* boring). they have every advantage in the book, but you set them down in a straight dice-off with 2-3 B-wings and you will realize why BBBBZ is a thing

As an Imperial/scum player, I NEVER attempt jousting, especially not against anything that starts with B.

they could atleast do it like this: if a turret ship is firing outside of its firing arc give the defender 1 bonus evade die so at range 3 + 2 defense dies

or if he fires out of firing arc reduce attack value by 1. something like that a little nerf dammit.

i fly everything in my Imperial fleet except of Phantoms cause my friends told me to stop using em and i did. sure the phantoms movement was pretty amazing and strong i managed more than 5 times to fight alone against 4 enemy small ships with the phantom now its will be trikier and i might put him back on the table cause it will be a challenge now to fly em.

i demand a turret nerf !!

i apologize for my rage + bed engrish sorry english is just one of the 5 languages i speak and its not that easy to get grammer correct iam still learning english ;P

IMO most painless way to balance turrets is to change the R1 rule so the target must be in a firing arc(Primary or Aux) to get the +1 red die.

Great minds think alike. I said the same thing in #43 of this thread and about 2 other threads weeks ago. It's just makes sense. Bring back the skill of the pilot to make him earn the bonus.