What... the... heck...

So the "Dragoon" from Age of Rebellion's Stay on Target has 8 damage, Accurate and Stun setting, 3 Hard Points and is expensive.

The DL-7H Heavy Blaster Pistol in Edge of the Empire's Dangerous Covenants, runs out of ammo on double Disadvantages, same damage, no accurate, no stun, only 2 Hard Points, and costs less than half of the Dragoon.

What was FFG smoking when they made the DL-7H Restricted and the Dragoon not? Seriously.

Why is this so!? Why is the Dragoon better and not Restricted, while the DL-7H is inferior and is Restricted?

The application of the Restricted tag makes very little sense across these lines. You get things like the HWK-1000 light freighter being restricted because it's as fast as a starfighter...but then you have the X-wing which is not Restricted despite being a fast starfighter that carries proton torpedo launchers (which are Restricted when purchased independently, and the torpedoes themselves are Restricted too).

It appears that FFG uses the restricted tag for story-purposes, not for any sort of balancing factor.

I just went and ignored that it was seeing as the new damage 8 blaster from fly casual whatever it is, isn't restricted and only a little bit more expensive and the discription talks it up to be as crazy, so I just saw no good reason to have to that way and just operate what is restricted on a case by case basis.

Restricted=Session plot idea. At least imo.

Ultimately, it's a case of different writers having different ideas on what makes for good additions to the game.

Also bear in mind that these books are being created with the dual purpose of not only being used in the system as a whole, but also as stand-alone supplements within their respective product lines.

And as you noted, the Dragoon is almost double the cost of the DL-7H and has the main advantage of Accurate 1 (stun setting isn't always a priority or even a requirement for a PC that favors using a big honking blaster). A simple purchase of Extra Reloads (which per RAW is not a one-use item as it's not spelled out as being a one-use item) very easily solves the "out of ammo" issue at the cost of 25 credits and a maneuver, while the Spare Clip talent might do the same if the GM allows for the effects to apply when a weapon is rendered "out of ammo" from Threat instead of just Despair.

The Dragoon is one item that I have been heavily questioning ever since it came out.

IMO, this smells very much like serious power encroachment. If this keeps up, soon you won’t be able to find a new Holdout Blaster that does less than 10 points of damage.

As GM, it’s up to you to decide what fits in your game and what doesn’t, and what to do about that if it doesn’t fit. Sometimes just making something twice as expensive doesn’t mean a hill of beans, and sometimes it makes all the difference in the world.

It’s your game, you’ve got to decide what makes sense in it.

IMO, this smells very much like serious power encroachment. If this keeps up, soon you won’t be able to find a new Holdout Blaster that does less than 10 points of damage.

I wouldn't be too worried about things getting that extreme

Fly Casual's got some pretty heavy-duty weapons, but they're either really heavy for a pistol (Encumbrance 3) or prohibitively expensive (4500 credits and Rarity of 9).

Yeah, it does seem that there's a little bit of a power creep as the new books have come out, but hopefully it won't go any further. There's probably a toss up between 3 or 4 blaster pistol guns that could be modded out to be the best available, depending on the player's preferences. (Pierce, Superior, Accurate, etc.)

IMO, this smells very much like serious power encroachment. If this keeps up, soon you won’t be able to find a new Holdout Blaster that does less than 10 points of damage.

I wouldn't be too worried about things getting that extreme

Fly Casual's got some pretty heavy-duty weapons, but they're either really heavy for a pistol (Encumbrance 3) or prohibitively expensive (4500 credits and Rarity of 9).

The application of the Restricted tag makes very little sense across these lines. You get things like the HWK-1000 light freighter being restricted because it's as fast as a starfighter...but then you have the X-wing which is not Restricted despite being a fast starfighter that carries proton torpedo launchers (which are Restricted when purchased independently, and the torpedoes themselves are Restricted too).

Yeah, we had a bit of a laugh about that the other day that the iconic rebel fighters are apparently not a restricted item.

I guess the Dragoon is set up with a collapsable stock and some other fluff bits so that it's meant to configured by the user to use either Ranged-Heavy or Ranged-Light.

That doesn't necessarily make it OK with me, lol, but it least it's got an explanation.

GM-wise I guess I'll say, "well, if you were a Rebel, you'd have access to Rebel armories for X-Wings and Dragoon blasters, but you're not, so, bummer. Keep to the EotE books!"

I can't see the point in putting a 'Restricted' tag on the X-Wing. If it's restricted, then it can be bought. X-Wing's can't - they're manufactured exclusively by the Alliance, exclusively for the Alliance. If there's an X-Wing up for sale somewhere, then it's been captured or stolen from the Rebellion at some point.

I can't see the point in putting a 'Restricted' tag on the X-Wing. If it's restricted, then it can be bought. X-Wing's can't - they're manufactured exclusively by the Alliance, exclusively for the Alliance. If there's an X-Wing up for sale somewhere, then it's been captured or stolen from the Rebellion at some point.

I'm thinking either stolen, misplaced, or fell off the back of the transport. I remember from the X-Wing books that mechanics hated new X-Wings due to the "improvements" done to them. I also wouldn't be surprised if a few were manufactured by the Hutts and weren't up to spec.

I can't see the point in putting a 'Restricted' tag on the X-Wing. If it's restricted, then it can be bought. X-Wing's can't - they're manufactured exclusively by the Alliance, exclusively for the Alliance. If there's an X-Wing up for sale somewhere, then it's been captured or stolen from the Rebellion at some point.

Replace X-wing with TIE and Alliance/Rebellion with Empire and you have the same basic idea. Note that the TIE is Restricted. The issue is that there is little consistency on when the Restricted tag is applied. If I had my way, it would be on just about every military-spec weapon, piece of gear, and vehicle/starship because the current usage makes no sense. It's perfectly legal for someone to own and operate a Mon Cal Cruiser but not a CR92a Assassin Corvette???

What... the... heck...

So the "Dragoon" from Age of Rebellion's Stay on Target has 8 damage, Accurate and Stun setting, 3 Hard Points and is expensive.

The DL-7H Heavy Blaster Pistol in Edge of the Empire's Dangerous Covenants, runs out of ammo on double Disadvantages, same damage, no accurate, no stun, only 2 Hard Points, and costs less than half of the Dragoon.

What was FFG smoking when they made the DL-7H Restricted and the Dragoon not? Seriously.

Why is this so!? Why is the Dragoon better and not Restricted, while the DL-7H is inferior and is Restricted?

Biggest reasoning that I can come up with sales and purchaser as well as manufacturing.

The Dragoon is a weapon that only other paramilitaries can afford to get on the open market. In addition, it sounds like it has some requirements in order to change it from pistol to carbine and back again. Heck, this sounds like something that bush pilots would buy and own for their survival gear.

Mean while, it feels like the DL-7H is a a cheaper knockoff that is problematic. Another big reason for the restriction could be that it can easily flood the market and get in the hands of criminals. It's the Saturday Night Special of the Star Wars universe, at least from my perspective.

Another thing to remember is that the AoR books have a far more military tilt, and assume the player is a member of the Alliance. That explains the "restricted" issue with the X-Wing, and the pricing and stats of the Dragoon: it's meant to be a convertible handgun for officers or senior NCOs, like the old Mauser broomhandle carbines were for the early 1900s German army.

Another thing to remember is that the AoR books have a far more military tilt, and assume the player is a member of the Alliance. That explains the "restricted" issue with the X-Wing .

It doesn't really explain why proton torpedoes are Restricted but starfighters with proton torpedoes (like the X-wing) are not Restricted. This shows up in the Edge line too, where there is no presumption that PCs are members of the Alliance.

Another thing to remember is that the AoR books have a far more military tilt, and assume the player is a member of the Alliance. That explains the "restricted" issue with the X-Wing .

It doesn't really explain why proton torpedoes are Restricted but starfighters with proton torpedoes (like the X-wing) are not Restricted. This shows up in the Edge line too, where there is no presumption that PCs are members of the Alliance.

Just a guess, but just because a ship has the capacity to use proton torpedoes as a default doesn't mean they're always going to come equipped with them. I'm playing in an AoR campaign centered around a newly-formed starfighter squadron, and while our Y-Wings have proton torpedo launchers, what we don't have are any proton torpedoes to launch; last session we played, we were lucky to have two torps in total, with them being split between two different Y-Wings so that if one ship got taken out we wouldn't lose both torps. We did wind up using both of them (mine to take out the main generator on a pirate asteroid base, the other to severely damage a pirate carrier), and there's no telling when (or even if ) we're going to get a restock.

A proton torpedo is a high-powered bomb , and the Empire would prefer that the only folks who can get a hold of those on a routine basis is themselves. It's akin to a civilian Hummer having the basic requirements to mount a SAW as part of the design, but the government making the purchase and mounting of said weapon by a civilian very much illegal.

Just a guess, but just because a ship has the capacity to use proton torpedoes as a default doesn't mean they're always going to come equipped with them. I'm playing in an AoR campaign centered around a newly-formed starfighter squadron, and while our Y-Wings have proton torpedo launchers, what we don't have are any proton torpedoes to launch; last session we played, we were lucky to have two torps in total, with them being split between two different Y-Wings so that if one ship got taken out we wouldn't lose both torps. We did wind up using both of them (mine to take out the main generator on a pirate asteroid base, the other to severely damage a pirate carrier), and there's no telling when (or even if ) we're going to get a restock.

A proton torpedo is a high-powered bomb , and the Empire would prefer that the only folks who can get a hold of those on a routine basis is themselves. It's akin to a civilian Hummer having the basic requirements to mount a SAW as part of the design, but the government making the purchase and mounting of said weapon by a civilian very much illegal.

That actually makes sense. In the AoR campaign, it might not be that hard to acquire certain gear since it'll be more common. Other gear, such as Proton Torpedoes, are more restricted due to being harder to get.

I guess that in order to show the difference, the items in AoR should have an increase in restriction by one or two, depending on the original gear.

I believe that certain gear be be more ubiquitous than others, like the Dragoon and demolition charges. That would mean restriction of 2, maybe 3 for EotE. At least, that's my take on it.

What do you all think?

A proton torpedo is a high-powered bomb , and the Empire would prefer that the only folks who can get a hold of those on a routine basis is themselves. It's akin to a civilian Hummer having the basic requirements to mount a SAW as part of the design, but the government making the purchase and mounting of said weapon by a civilian very much illegal.

No, It's more like being able to buy an F-18 but not the missiles that go on it. Even without the missiles, the F-18 would still be Restricted in today's world.

Also note that, by default, buying a weapon with Limited Ammo (including a vehicle mounting such a weapon) includes a full load for that weapon so your anecdotal example is not typical.

Another thing to remember is that the AoR books have a far more military tilt, and assume the player is a member of the Alliance. That explains the "restricted" issue with the X-Wing .

It doesn't really explain why proton torpedoes are Restricted but starfighters with proton torpedoes (like the X-wing) are not Restricted. This shows up in the Edge line too, where there is no presumption that PCs are members of the Alliance.

Just a guess, but just because a ship has the capacity to use proton torpedoes as a default doesn't mean they're always going to come equipped with them. I'm playing in an AoR campaign centered around a newly-formed starfighter squadron, and while our Y-Wings have proton torpedo launchers, what we don't have are any proton torpedoes to launch; last session we played, we were lucky to have two torps in total, with them being split between two different Y-Wings so that if one ship got taken out we wouldn't lose both torps. We did wind up using both of them (mine to take out the main generator on a pirate asteroid base, the other to severely damage a pirate carrier), and there's no telling when (or even if ) we're going to get a restock.

A proton torpedo is a high-powered bomb , and the Empire would prefer that the only folks who can get a hold of those on a routine basis is themselves. It's akin to a civilian Hummer having the basic requirements to mount a SAW as part of the design, but the government making the purchase and mounting of said weapon by a civilian very much illegal.

You're running a starfighter squadron without torps? A Y-Wing squadron without torps? Yikes.

I always looked at the Y-Wing like a Star Wars-y F-14; can engage targets from over the horizon with missiles, but fragile and ungainly as heck in close quarters.

You know what HappyDaze? If you're so all-fired pissed off about this and demand an answer or a correction, why don't you try asking the devs directly about why the X-Wing isn't Restricted? Could even be that the designersr' idea of Restricted differs from yours completely.

It's obvious that any answer that any of the posters here get isn't going to satisfy you no matter reasoning or rationale is given. And since the FFG staff specifically don't post or even read these forums, you're not going to get an answer simply by complaining on the forums about how things in an RPG don't match up to how they operate in the real world. But it's also pretty clear that Star Wars as both an RPG and as a setting DOES NOT RUN ON THE SAME LOGIC AS THE REAL WORLD . Never has, and most likely never will . And if you can't get over that... well, that's your hang-up. And if those kind of niggling little details ruin the game for you so completely that you can't play it anymore..., well, you have my sympathies.

Me? I'm not going to fret about it, and simply enjoy playing and running what is probably one of the best **** RPGs on the market. And if something comes up that doesn't completely jive for me, it's a ridiculously easy matter to implement a house rule and keep moving on with the game.

Why so aggressive Donovan? I never said I was "so all-fired pissed off about this" nor did I "demand an answer or a correction" to this issue. I have merely pointed out that the Restricted tag is not used consistently.

Another thing to remember is that the AoR books have a far more military tilt, and assume the player is a member of the Alliance. That explains the "restricted" issue with the X-Wing .

It doesn't really explain why proton torpedoes are Restricted but starfighters with proton torpedoes (like the X-wing) are not Restricted. This shows up in the Edge line too, where there is no presumption that PCs are members of the Alliance.

Just a guess, but just because a ship has the capacity to use proton torpedoes as a default doesn't mean they're always going to come equipped with them. I'm playing in an AoR campaign centered around a newly-formed starfighter squadron, and while our Y-Wings have proton torpedo launchers, what we don't have are any proton torpedoes to launch; last session we played, we were lucky to have two torps in total, with them being split between two different Y-Wings so that if one ship got taken out we wouldn't lose both torps. We did wind up using both of them (mine to take out the main generator on a pirate asteroid base, the other to severely damage a pirate carrier), and there's no telling when (or even if ) we're going to get a restock.

A proton torpedo is a high-powered bomb , and the Empire would prefer that the only folks who can get a hold of those on a routine basis is themselves. It's akin to a civilian Hummer having the basic requirements to mount a SAW as part of the design, but the government making the purchase and mounting of said weapon by a civilian very much illegal.

You're running a starfighter squadron without torps? A Y-Wing squadron without torps? Yikes.

I always looked at the Y-Wing like a Star Wars-y F-14; can engage targets from over the horizon with missiles, but fragile and ungainly as heck in close quarters.

Maybe they cost too much for the cash strapped rebel alliance?