I do love the reasoning of this - even after the changes.

"You there, yes, you! You're cheating!"

"How?"

"You're using features on the map to work out ranges between ships!"

"What features?"

"Those two stars. You know exactly what the distance is between them!"

"You mean the two out of roughly six hundred stars on this map, that these two ships just happened to land on?"

"Yes. You know the distance between those stars, and every other star on the mat. That's why you always know the range bands without checking!"

"Is it not a little more likely that I've simply been playing the game for years, so am pretty good at eyeballing distances?"

"No! It's far more likely that you've committed to memory the exact distance between dozens, if not hundreds of near-identical white dots, in order to cheat at this game and win more!"

"Riiiiiiiiight..."

Yes, I am aware that not every map is a starfield. But if I brought along a starfield map to a tourney I'd honestly be flabbergasted if someone told me I couldn't play on it.

I'm not furious about it, because the reason they give is a sensible one, but I can definitely see how people could get annoyed.

Is it? I question that.

Is FFG going to show up to SCs and Regionals and provide an unlimited number of mats free for use in their tournaments? How many mats should a store own for 1 or 2 tournaments a year? Who's going to pay for that nonsense? Are stores just going to say "screw it, FFG is retarded so we're going to ignore that rule"?

This is the most unreasonable ruling for anything outside of FFG's Nationals and Worlds tournaments, which FFG runs themselves.

I'm not furious about it, because the reason they give is a sensible one, but I can definitely see how people could get annoyed.

Is it? I question that.

Is FFG going to show up to SCs and Regionals and provide an unlimited number of mats free for use in their tournaments? How many mats should a store own for 1 or 2 tournaments a year? Who's going to pay for that nonsense? Are stores just going to say "screw it, FFG is retarded so we're going to ignore that rule"?

This is the most unreasonable ruling for anything outside of FFG's Nationals and Worlds tournaments, which FFG runs themselves.

First, the ruling has been changed, and I was happy to see it changed.

Second, I wasn't saying "this an ideal solution to a problem I've observed personally". I was saying that saying "no personal mats at sanctioned events" is a solution to the problem they identified.

It also wasn't a rule that was going to impact players very much, unless they were in the business of cheating in exactly that way. I'm not, so it didn't really affect me. It affected store owners and TOs a great deal, but that's a different issue--and one I've addressed at some length elsewhere in the thread.

It's hilarious that despite the fact it's been addressed and revised, people are still moaning about this, even though before it was revised it affected nobody but TOs.

And as for standing there and spitting at a COMPANY for doing something that might help them sell some of their PRODUCT. Well, that just indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of how capitalism works.

It's hilarious that despite the fact it's been addressed and revised, people are still moaning about this, even though before it was revised it affected nobody but TOs.

And as for standing there and spitting at a COMPANY for doing something that might help them sell some of their PRODUCT. Well, that just indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of how capitalism works.

I am a TO! It will directly affect me. If you attend my tournament(s), it will directly affect you as well. I will essentially be ignoring this rule because I do not intend on paying hundreds of dollars for mats of any kind. If players bring mats, I will gladly take possession of them and use them.

Oh, and thanks for the lesson in capitalism. Now that I know I have a fundamental misunderstanding of how it works, I feel I was completely in the wrong. Maybe FFG should go back and change their mind on the dial issue again. That certainly seems to support capitalism better...

You don't have to ignore the rule because they changed the rule!

Can we get some reading comprehension in here?

You don't have to ignore the rule because they changed the rule!

Can we get some reading comprehension in here?

Have you read the rule? It says that players may replace the store furnished third party mat with an FFG mat. There are tons of players out there that already have third party mats and not FFG mats. That means, when players show up to a tournament, they probably will have a third party mat, but they cannot use it. The store has to have sufficient mats for all attendees in the event that they do not bring an FFG mat. So as a TO, I cannot let players bring their own mats and use them during the tournament, which means I have to convince the store to buy 20+ mats or buy them myself.

It's hilarious that despite the fact it's been addressed and revised, people are still moaning about this, even though before it was revised it affected nobody but TOs.

And as for standing there and spitting at a COMPANY for doing something that might help them sell some of their PRODUCT. Well, that just indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of how capitalism works.

I am a TO! It will directly affect me. If you attend my tournament(s), it will directly affect you as well. I will essentially be ignoring this rule because I do not intend on paying hundreds of dollars for mats of any kind. If players bring mats, I will gladly take possession of them and use them.

Oh, and thanks for the lesson in capitalism. Now that I know I have a fundamental misunderstanding of how it works, I feel I was completely in the wrong. Maybe FFG should go back and change their mind on the dial issue again. That certainly seems to support capitalism better...

The guy offering you lessons in capitalism is being silly. Capitalism doesn't involve screwing your customers over any more than gathering berries requires you to uproot all the bushes.

You don't have to ignore the rule because they changed the rule!

Can we get some reading comprehension in here?

Have you read the rule? It says that players may replace the store furnished third party mat with an FFG mat. There are tons of players out there that already have third party mats and not FFG mats. That means, when players show up to a tournament, they probably will have a third party mat, but they cannot use it. The store has to have sufficient mats for all attendees in the event that they do not bring an FFG mat. So as a TO, I cannot let players bring their own mats and use them during the tournament, which means I have to convince the store to buy 20+ mats or buy them myself.

Read the rule again. It doesn't say where the TO's third-party mats have to come from. You are, in effect, free to do exactly what you did before this revision: collect mats from players, distribute them out to the tables, and go on with your tournament.

The only thing you can't do is allow players to (a) bring a third-party mat and (b) carry it around with them and use it for every match. That doesn't affect the TO in the least.

No, you just inspect the mats they bring and if they pass muster you borrow them.

I see no problem with this. I'm sure they wouldn't either.

edit: ninja'd

This seems pretty absurd. Any reasonable TO for smaller store tournaments won't care, and should let people use their own mats. Major championships better be prepared to provide their own mats now.

Oh no! I might have to play on a plain table at a tourney! Help, help! The world is ending.

Except it isn't because I've done that before and I will doubtless do it again.

As to this being ffg 'screwing' their customers, I'm not really sure how that's the case, especially now it's been changed. But what do I know? I'm just being silly apparently

As to this being ffg 'screwing' their customers, I'm not really sure how that's the case, especially now it's been changed. But what do I know? I'm just being silly apparently

FFG isn't screwing their customers. But upthread you said this:

And as for standing there and spitting at a COMPANY for doing something that might help them sell some of their PRODUCT. Well, that just indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of how capitalism works.

Which strongly implies that anything a COMPANY does to sell some of their PRODUCT is just capitalism at work, which… it's off-topic, I guess, but all methods of selling PRODUCT are not equally effective over the long term, and not all effective methods are ethical or praiseworthy.

As to this being ffg 'screwing' their customers, I'm not really sure how that's the case, especially now it's been changed. But what do I know? I'm just being silly apparently

FFG isn't screwing their customers. But upthread you said this:

And as for standing there and spitting at a COMPANY for doing something that might help them sell some of their PRODUCT. Well, that just indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of how capitalism works.

Which strongly implies that anything a COMPANY does to sell some of their PRODUCT is just capitalism at work, which… it's off-topic, I guess, but all methods of selling PRODUCT are not equally effective over the long term, and not all effective methods are ethical or praiseworthy.

OR, given that we were discussing a specific thing that they had done (adjusting a rule so as to possibly help them sell more of their own product) it could have been saying that was not so bad or surprising. The moment that ffg require you to sacrifice a baby on a spike in order to participate in a tourney, I'll be right there on the barricades with you. While they occasionally mandate rules for their own official tournaments which push people towards buying more of their own products at times, I'll probably just leave them to it...

It's hilarious that despite the fact it's been addressed and revised, people are still moaning about this, even though before it was revised it affected nobody but TOs.

And as for standing there and spitting at a COMPANY for doing something that might help them sell some of their PRODUCT. Well, that just indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of how capitalism works.

I am a TO! It will directly affect me. If you attend my tournament(s), it will directly affect you as well. I will essentially be ignoring this rule because I do not intend on paying hundreds of dollars for mats of any kind. If players bring mats, I will gladly take possession of them and use them.

Oh, and thanks for the lesson in capitalism. Now that I know I have a fundamental misunderstanding of how it works, I feel I was completely in the wrong. Maybe FFG should go back and change their mind on the dial issue again. That certainly seems to support capitalism better...

The guy offering you lessons in capitalism is being silly. Capitalism doesn't involve screwing your customers over any more than gathering berries requires you to uproot all the bushes.

You don't have to ignore the rule because they changed the rule!

Can we get some reading comprehension in here?

Have you read the rule? It says that players may replace the store furnished third party mat with an FFG mat. There are tons of players out there that already have third party mats and not FFG mats. That means, when players show up to a tournament, they probably will have a third party mat, but they cannot use it. The store has to have sufficient mats for all attendees in the event that they do not bring an FFG mat. So as a TO, I cannot let players bring their own mats and use them during the tournament, which means I have to convince the store to buy 20+ mats or buy them myself.

Read the rule again. It doesn't say where the TO's third-party mats have to come from. You are, in effect, free to do exactly what you did before this revision: collect mats from players, distribute them out to the tables, and go on with your tournament.

The only thing you can't do is allow players to (a) bring a third-party mat and (b) carry it around with them and use it for every match. That doesn't affect the TO in the least.

Looks like it's down again.. The last time I read it said something about having players replace it with an FFG mat only, too.

I get that's it's a moot point now since its been changed, but all this "it's a money grabs they're forcing TOs to spend hundred of quid on FFG Playmats" was nonsense, since you've always been allowed to play without playmats.

I don't see why the rule isn't "if both players are happy with it, you can use your own non-official playmats".

I don't see why the rule isn't "if both players are happy with it, you can use your own non-official playmats".

Any TO with a brain will operate under that assumption.