So Core Set and Wave 1 Tournament rounds are 90 minutes long. Wave 2 is 150 minutes.
Can some one justify to me why the time per round increases by 2/3 when the combined points involved only increases by 1/3?

That makes a standard 32 player or less tournament with 3 rounds a whopping 7.5 hours long, If you don't count time between rounds. which will realistically put it at 8+. 33 players or more pushes that to 5 rounds, and a soul crushing 12.5 hours., or almost 14 with down time.

What the hell.

Wave 1 tournament rounds are 120 minutes long. Only core set tournament rounds are 90 minutes.

How did i miss that? Jesus, my eyes. Still. Tournaments are going to hammer the player base.

It also recommends that 33+ player events be held over two days. Three rounds the first day, two rounds the second day.

Yeah, seems the approach they are taking is multi day events for large numbers of players.

On the flip side, because each victory or loss grants you tournament points based on the margin of win/loss, it will be quicker than doing it something like X-Wing where you can end up with a knockout competition because it is only based on league totals, cause that would just take even longer.

Of course some people could say that it is a bit anticlimactic, since there is no "final", but I think its really the only way to run an Armada tournament given the longer timeframes.

No-one is forcing anyone to play tournaments. Except for me forcing my friends to play... but lets ignore that

I love long games. 40k Tournaments last forever already, I'm used to long games and 40k is still pretty popular, even after GW continues its downward spiral, so I'm sure there will be enough people willing to invest a full weekend day into Armada to make these tournaments worthwhile.

Plus most games won't even be tournaments anyway, most will be people playing with friends.

Any non-Regional or higher event (and even some Regionals), won't run past a single 8 hour day event.

I actually am wondering how 6 RD games will take this long. Warmachine games have way more stuff on the table and don't take as long.

A tournament is only 3 rounds for up to 32 players and 5 rounds for 33+. That's it. Then the player with the most points wins. It isn't an elimination braket. A full 150 minute per round tournament should be no more than 8-10 hours.

Where is this coming from?

EDIT: Nevermind, front page changed now.

Where is this coming from?

EDIT: Nevermind, front page changed now.

Holy crap grandmoffjoe! I just noticed your signature, I feel so incredibly honored!

OMG a whole day worth of games?! I don't see how that could be fun at all. People complain about some silly stuff.

Yeah, I always love these. Like we have not been playing 2-day events for 30+ years... I will not miss anyone with an hour attention span limit who chooses to play another game.

OMG a whole day worth of games?! I don't see how that could be fun at all. People complain about some silly stuff.

I think you're misrepresenting the problem.

People have other obligations, and an 8 hour tournament is something that's a lot harder to commit to than a 3 hour torunament that several other games use.

It's not just about what's "fun," it's about what people can realistically participate in.

I have been playing competitively since 1977. The 75 minute rounds of X wing are the shortest I have experienced, yet every tourney I have played in has ended after midnight due the number of rounds played. I have also played in tourneys where the rounds were 4 hours long and took three days. There will always be people that *****, but people can realistically participate in anything. I continue to laugh at posts that make it seem like gaming was invented yesterday and things we have been doing for decades have never been done before or are not considered normal.

There is also the issue that a game company dictating tourney terms to its players is an artificial restriction. You can run events in any format you like. I have run events that did not use the company format, but attracted more players and gave out more prizes than any the company itself ran or sanctioned.

For company sanctioned events, they cannot please everyone, so they go with what will work with that game for the most people. My read is that, for Armada - which has a lot going on per turn - 400 at 2.5 hours is pretty much exactly where they should be.

So Core Set and Wave 1 Tournament rounds are 90 minutes long. Wave 2 is 150 minutes.

Can some one justify to me why the time per round increases by 2/3 when the combined points involved only increases by 1/3?

Because like many things in life, it is not a linear mathematical relationship between points spent and time required. As points increase the number of ships, fighters and upgrades increase in exponential possible complexity, we already see this in x-wing that a 200 point game will often take more than twice the time a 100 point game takes to resolve.

I have been playing competitively since 1977. The 75 minute rounds of X wing are the shortest I have experienced, yet every tourney I have played in has ended after midnight due the number of rounds played. I have also played in tourneys where the rounds were 4 hours long and took three days. There will always be people that *****, but people can realistically participate in anything. I continue to laugh at posts that make it seem like gaming was invented yesterday and things we have been doing for decades have never been done before or are not considered normal.

There is also the issue that a game company dictating tourney terms to its players is an artificial restriction. You can run events in any format you like. I have run events that did not use the company format, but attracted more players and gave out more prizes than any the company itself ran or sanctioned.

For company sanctioned events, they cannot please everyone, so they go with what will work with that game for the most people. My read is that, for Armada - which has a lot going on per turn - 400 at 2.5 hours is pretty much exactly where they should be.

I'm just going to let the ridiculousness of that statement stand on its own.

I have been playing competitively since 1977. The 75 minute rounds of X wing are the shortest I have experienced, yet every tourney I have played in has ended after midnight due the number of rounds played. I have also played in tourneys where the rounds were 4 hours long and took three days. There will always be people that *****, but people can realistically participate in anything. I continue to laugh at posts that make it seem like gaming was invented yesterday and things we have been doing for decades have never been done before or are not considered normal.

There is also the issue that a game company dictating tourney terms to its players is an artificial restriction. You can run events in any format you like. I have run events that did not use the company format, but attracted more players and gave out more prizes than any the company itself ran or sanctioned.

For company sanctioned events, they cannot please everyone, so they go with what will work with that game for the most people. My read is that, for Armada - which has a lot going on per turn - 400 at 2.5 hours is pretty much exactly where they should be.

I'm just going to let the ridiculousness of that statement stand on its own.

If you say so I'd say he's got a pretty valid opinion. Just because a single round of armada is going to take as long as your average MTG tournament doesn't mean it's a bad thing. This being a thinking mans game, personally I was worried time limits would be so short once they got to 300 point matches (and now 400 ) that we wouldn't be able to really "finish" the match before time was called. I Also feel like arguing over the times now will turn out to be pretty silly, as wave 1 isn't even out yet and I find it highly likely that the times and some other silly rules (like which game mat you can bring for example) will be revised based on play testing between now and the time any of us have to care anyway.

I stand by it. I have played in tournaments of every format and length, from 3 rounds at 75 min each to weekend long affairs of 4 hour rounds. The idea that people can't realistically participate in a tourney at 2.5 hour rounds and two days is incorrect. That is actually, basically miniature gaming standard - Warhammmer and 40k, larger Warmachine events, Flames of War and its derivatives...etc. Just came back from Adepticon where I had both the pleasure of playing some Armada with its designers and talking about this issue and watching thousands of gamers play rounds of 2.5 hour games over multiple days.

What is ridiculous is the idea that a miniatures game tourney taking two days with rounds of 2.5 hours is somehow unreasonable or that people can't realistically participate.

Cobalt makes a good point. Armada is Flames of War and Warhammer, not MTG. Its a large miniatures game with many things happening, not a card game. So, the card game model for tourneys does not apply.

Even coming from LCGs I think these are reasonable. In a decent size LCG tournament you'll have 4-5 rounds which will inevitably have some delays and take 5-6 hours, then you make the top cut and have another 2 hours worth of playing. I've definitely had card game tournaments last 8+ hours.

So I think the current time limits are reasonable for this sort of game. It will be weird to me to play without any sort of top cut, but it makes a lot more sense with the huge game length and variable scoring. It will be very interesting to see what kind of margin of victory becomes the average...

2.5 hours is spot on for all of the war games I've played throughout my life. I admit, I've been drawn to LCGs in large part due to their short games! At conventions, I like to be able to walk around and do other stuff.

BTW Perakkir- your username is very familiar to me! Are you a Flames of War player?

I have been playing competitively since 1977. The 75 minute rounds of X wing are the shortest I have experienced, yet every tourney I have played in has ended after midnight due the number of rounds played. I have also played in tourneys where the rounds were 4 hours long and took three days. There will always be people that *****, but people can realistically participate in anything. I continue to laugh at posts that make it seem like gaming was invented yesterday and things we have been doing for decades have never been done before or are not considered normal.

There is also the issue that a game company dictating tourney terms to its players is an artificial restriction. You can run events in any format you like. I have run events that did not use the company format, but attracted more players and gave out more prizes than any the company itself ran or sanctioned.

For company sanctioned events, they cannot please everyone, so they go with what will work with that game for the most people. My read is that, for Armada - which has a lot going on per turn - 400 at 2.5 hours is pretty much exactly where they should be.

I'm just going to let the ridiculousness of that statement stand on its own.

Someone's never been to the Boardgame Players Association Word Boardgaming Championships.

I have been playing competitively since 1977. The 75 minute rounds of X wing are the shortest I have experienced, yet every tourney I have played in has ended after midnight due the number of rounds played. I have also played in tourneys where the rounds were 4 hours long and took three days. There will always be people that *****, but people can realistically participate in anything. I continue to laugh at posts that make it seem like gaming was invented yesterday and things we have been doing for decades have never been done before or are not considered normal.

There is also the issue that a game company dictating tourney terms to its players is an artificial restriction. You can run events in any format you like. I have run events that did not use the company format, but attracted more players and gave out more prizes than any the company itself ran or sanctioned.

For company sanctioned events, they cannot please everyone, so they go with what will work with that game for the most people. My read is that, for Armada - which has a lot going on per turn - 400 at 2.5 hours is pretty much exactly where they should be.

I'm just going to let the ridiculousness of that statement stand on its own.

That's the Vlad I know and love!

Yes, Steven, it's Jon. And that is *former* Flames of War player. It's all Freeblades and Armada now...

ahhh! Awesome dude! I thought that was you!

Yes, we'll have to meet up for some Armada, have a few beers, and reminisce