Hello everyone, I know this has been discussed to death but I'd like to get some help working on some fun house rules. First I'm going to outline the core rules, then I'll address each ordnance card individually.

Missiles:

May be fired instead of attacking during any combat phase. Place a missile marker (use a small ship base) in front of the ship that fired the missile using the 1 straight template, and place the appropriate number of fuel markers on the missile's card (see card for number.)

All missiles move at PS 12 using any of the following templates: 5 straight, 4 straight, 3 bank, or 2 bank. If the firing ship has a target lock, the missile may use the 3 turn or 2 turn as well. After moving, remove a fuel marker. If there are no fuel markers to remove, the missile is removed from play.

After removing the fuel marker, a missile may use the boost action.

Torpedoes:

Function identically to Missiles, but may not boost, never have access ot the 3 turn or 2 turn, and only have access to the 3 bank or 2 bank if the firing ship has a target lock.

Detonation:

If the maneuver template or marker overlaps a ship at any time, the ordnance detonates. The defender does not roll defense dice.

Specific Missiles:

Homing Missile - 2 Attack dice w/ rerolls, may always use the turn templates - 4 points - 3 fuel

Assault Missile - 1 Attack die against all ships within range 1 of the marker - 4 points - 3 fuel

Concussion Missile - 2 Attack dice w/ focus token - 3 points - 3 fuel

Cluster Missile - 2 Attack dice, place two missile tokens when firing - 3 points - 2 fuel

Ion Pulse Missile - 1 Attack die, a hit also adds two ion tokens - 2 points - 3 fuel

Proton Rockets - 3 Attack die - 2 points - 1 fuel

Specific Torpedoes:

Advanced Proton Torpedoes - 6 Attack dice w/ focus token - 4 points - 1 fuel

Ion Torpedoes - 2 Attack die against all ships within range 1, a hit also adds an ion token - 4 points - 3 fuel

Proton Torpedoes - 3 Attack dice, focus results count as criticals - 3 points - 3 fuel

Flechette Torpedoes - 2 Attack dice, every hit/crit also adds a stress token - 2 points - 3 fuel

Pilot/Upgrade Changes:

Nera Dantels - Torpedoes may use any edge of this ship to launch from

Lt Blount - Missiles fired from this ship always have access to the 1, 2, and 3 turns

Major Rhymer - Missiles and Torpedoes have 1 extra fuel, and access to the 3 straight and 2 straight

Munitions Failsafe - Missiles and Torpedoes may reroll attack dice

Deadeye - Missiles and Torpedoes all have a focus token

I want my missiles to be able to barrel roll as well!

I hope you play test these ideas and get back to us with your results.

I'd want the torpedoes to do way more damage than missiles. These should be rolling double the Attack dice as roughly only doing 2 - 3 damage at the moment.

EDITED: You could limit the number of movement rounds for the missiles/torpedoes by their stated max range. So a Proton Torpedo has range 3 so could last 3 rounds, while a Proton Rocket explodes after 1 round.

Even cooler, all missiles/torpedoes explode at the end of their last move... place a seismic charge template to show this for missiles and a proximity mine token for torpedoes. These token marker zones would just do 1 Attack die on all ships covered.

It actually sounds not too shabby. My first worry though is that the defender cannot roll any defense die, which seems to me makes all of the missiles and such a bit too overpowered. Maybe keep their normal attack and abilities (and allow the defender to try and evade damage), and use your unique movement style? Just an idea.

Also, it doesn't make much sense to me for the missiles to have a boost after they move: thats giving them a huge advantage against big ships and the like, and would decrease the feeling of OP I have in my mouth. (Of course, testing this out in practice could prove otherwise)

This does sound like a good buff for ordnance though. I may experiment with this concept with my group as well, just to see how it works. Thanks for sharing though, this sounds like it could be really fun to mess around with!

Thanks for the quick feedback!

DB Draft,

I don't really like the auto-explode idea. While many modern day missiles do have proximity detonations, they're so close to the aircraft there would be no visible difference at this scale. Dudding out seems much more appropriate.

As for Torpedoes, double might be a little OTT unless their maneuverability was toned down. Something like having to go straight unless you've got a target lock (the missile can still bank without it.) That'd make it a monster against huge ships, and have a good chance against large ships, but small ships would be next to impossible to hit. What do you think about that?

Urist McDwarf,

To me, the defense is all about maneuverability, not green dice. Ordnance should represent the consistent threat that takes skill to dodge/make impossible to dodge. Allowing a defense roll with a reduced agility may be a fair balance though.

As for the huge advantage against big ships, they honestly should have a very easy time hitting the big ships. Thing is, they won't ever do much damage. They've got a decent-good chance of hitting the small ships, especially at longer ranges. This to me catches the perfect flavor of missiles. There's a reason why the saying "target too close, switching to guns" is true. Soontir's hard counter to missiles is to get right in your face. Missiles don't have k-turns, and will take at least three turns to turn around if they overshoot. However, if they haven't overshot the boost will let them correct and still get you at longer ranges.

Please feel free to cannibalize this rule for your group! I look forward to any discoveries you guys make.

I see torpedoes as being primarily designed to take on the big ships and missiles are more for tactical dogfighting.

Another idea: Is it possible to shoot down incoming ordnance? I cannot remember if this was possible on the old TIE Fighter game. If the defender cannot roll defense dice then they can at least try to protect themselves. Maybe they can be shot at (range 1 -2 only) but require an unmodified critical result to hit and this will auto explode the missile/torpedo with the seismic/proximity token effect. Same for if it passes through an asteroid marker.

DB Draft,

I am hugely opposed to being able to shoot down ordnance, as that is way too arcade-y for this. To me, your maneuver dial is your defense against ordnance. This carves out a very nice niche for ordnance in my opinion and is reflective of actual dogfighting tactics.

You did get me thinking about asteroid interactions as a means to countering ordnance though. Honestly it could keep an identical mechanic to ships, but if you roll a hit or crit then the ordnance is destroyed because it impacted the asteroid. Very simple mechanic that borrows from one that already works.

I've also decided to ditch the "use each speed once" mechanic as the book keeping required for that is too tedious. What do you think about these modified rules for torpedoes as well? The goal is to make them harder to hit nimble fighters with, but do brutal damage whenever they do hit.

Torpedoes:

May be fired at any time and at any range. Place a missile marker (use the senator's shuttle token) in front of the ship that fired the missile using the 1 straight template.

All torpedoes move at PS 12 using a dial set to a speed between 1 and 5. When the dial is flipped, place a straight template with the corresponding speed. If the firing ship has a target lock, the torpedo may use the bank templates instead.

Place a counter on the torpedo card after moving. Once there are 5 counters, the torpedo is discarded.

Specific Torpedoes:

Advanced Proton Torpedoes - 6 Attack dice w/ focus token - 4 points

Ion Torpedoes - 2 Attack die against all ships within range 1, a hit also adds an ion token - 4 points

Proton Torpedoes - 3 Attack dice, focus results count as criticals - 3 points

Flechette Torpedoes - 2 Attack dice, every hit/crit also adds a stress token - 2 points

Hello again yall,

So I played a brief game today trying out these rules with a friend (our professor let us out of class early, may the lord be praised!). Anyways, the rules were really fun to mess around with, we took all the normal ideas, but used their normal attack and abilities, and let the defender roll defense die. We also made it so that if you ran over an asteroid it instantly blew up, got rid of boosts (which I'll get to in a second), and made it so that you could do all of the forward and bank maneuvers.

This did mean we had to have the target lock to fire (but you could theoretically go for another ship with the missile or torpedo). Plus, we made it so that they could be fired even if the enemy was outside your arc, but it would still be thrust from the front of the template. I tried out some of the torps, while my friend attempted to use the missiles. It turns out that (based arbitrarily off of this one game of course) the best fix for this is probably removing the evade dice completely (I admit, it does still badly hurt desire to use ordinance, and makes them feel less stressful, which is the opposite of the desired reaction when a Homing Missile is chasing you down!).

Oh and on a final note the shuttle token seemed a bit big for me (it seemed like the missiles shouldn't be as big as the ships themselves). We decided to use number tokens and match them to their cards. Does someone have a more creative idea?

We will probably try again, but this time without evade dice. Hopefully it will be enlightening and make the game more intense!

Just put quite a few updates in the first post. Highlights include using fuel to keep track of missiles, shrinking the base size down (still debating what to use, just picked this one for ease of use on Vassal,) and adding pilot/upgrade changes.

I should be on this Saturday at noon central time to try this out. It all depends on if I get called into work or not.

Urist,

I didn't realize the shuttle token was that large, good call on it. I think the number tokens are a little too small, but the main killer is the lack of nubs to complete maneuvers with. The goal I have for the ordnance isn't necessarily to make them terrifying and 100% dictate your opponent's decisions, but more to force them to have to make an additional decision/mistake. Do they eat the damage in order to do the maneuvers they want, or do they try to outmaneuver the missile but risk losing an advantageous position? That's a big reason I took out the defense dice, and I'm glad that it is showing to be the right call so far.

I like the idea of shooting down missiles, but I dont like the idea of it being easy. I feel like they should have one hull and an agility of 4 + the value of the speed they traveled this round. To make this more meaningful, they also ignore defense dice if they overlap the ship, but the ship gets defense dice if only the template overlaps.

That encourages varied speeds and a risk vs reward playstyle with the weapons themselves. Ships firing at missiles are also not firing at other ships, and it's purely defensive and, at 5-9 agility, nearly impossible to actually do. Flying skill is super important, but so is flying in such a formation that a wingman might be in position to rescue you from a missile.

PlayerNine,

I'm reluctant to because it seems way too much like an arcade game, which is not the reason my gaming group or I play X-Wing. The meaningfulness to the speed selected (i.e. why to not just choose the fastest maneuver) really comes down to how catastrophic it is for the missile to overshoot. An overshoot is basically a guaranteed miss. Also, missiles and torpedoes suddenly all become viable ways to break up a formation. Now that missile slot on a YT-1300 will get used, which I have never seen done before.

However, enough people have mentioned it, that I will consider play testing it, but I'd change the mechanic to this:

Attacker rolls dice as normal, but only criticals count as hits. The defender rolls dice equal to the speed of the maneuver completed that turn.

Well, there's really a line that you can be on either side of, closer to realism or closer to star wars fantasy. Shooting down missiles in a high stakes gamble is more in line with things like star wars or top gun, stuff like that. Stuff ace pilots might pull off in those roles. On the other side, more realistic missiles are crazy devastating and dodging is pretty rare, but counter-measures are frequently used for defense instead.

One idea that suits both of those, I really, really like the idea that the targetlock has to be maintained AND if you switch target locks, the missile also changes targets.

One final thought, just give the missiles a dial that only has speed 3 and up moves. That would make it fairly hard to control but very fast.

Did a little bit of play testing with myself, and here are some changes/lessons learned:

-Missiles and Torpedoes move before any ships are activated. This keeps you from running into your own missile so easily.

-High Agility ships hate missiles. Holy cow, they hurt interceptors so badly if they're caught.

-There feels like two ways to play ordnance: conservative and risky. Both have their merits for sure, but risky is more fun for me. My missile hit in one instance purely because I took a risk and predicted it correctly, same scenario it would have missed horribly. It was a hell of a lot of fun

-Target Locks make a huge difference in your chances of hitting.