i think x-wing will be a shadow of armada.

The comparison works because it invalidates the core of many others arguments towards the cost of Armada hindering it's ability to be successful, as referenced by the other poster. More over what is or is not expensive is very subjective. Monopoly is expensive, if you are homeless. So there is often no universal standard of expensive, thus the only valid measure is up against similar products. Is this item more expensive then other like items becomes the real question because you can't know what bar people use to denote expensive for thier situation.

If games more expensive then Armada are popular, then there is no reason to conclude that Armada is to expensive to be popular. Which is a common sentiment expressed since this game was announced. And was a common sentiment expressed towards X-wing when it was first released as well.

Yes, there are absolutely non/new to minature gamers that would play Armada and X-wing but can't afford both. They will have to pick. There are also gamers coming from other miniatures games that are use to spending far more then the combined cost of both games for thier hobby, they won't have to pick or bat an eye even. There are also substantial numbers of miniature gamers that aren't attracted to X-wing because it is to basic for thier tastes. Armada appeals to them as it is a more in depth game.

i think x-wing will be a shadow of armada.

I see no evidence of this.

X Wing, whether you like it or not, is exceptionally popular. It is a huge seller for FFG. For Armada to eclipse that will be a considerable feat.

The comparison works because it invalidates the core of many others arguments towards the cost of Armada hindering it's ability to be successful, as referenced by the other poster. More over what is or is not expensive is very subjective. Monopoly is expensive, if you are homeless. So there is often no universal standard of expensive, thus the only valid measure is up against similar products. Is this item more expensive then other like items becomes the real question because you can't know what bar people use to denote expensive for thier situation.

If games more expensive then Armada are popular, then there is no reason to conclude that Armada is to expensive to be popular. Which is a common sentiment expressed since this game was announced. And was a common sentiment expressed towards X-wing when it was first released as well.

Yes, there are absolutely non/new to minature gamers that would play Armada and X-wing but can't afford both. They will have to pick. There are also gamers coming from other miniatures games that are use to spending far more then the combined cost of both games for thier hobby, they won't have to pick or bat an eye even. There are also substantial numbers of miniature gamers that aren't attracted to X-wing because it is to basic for thier tastes. Armada appeals to them as it is a more in depth game.

I think you're being obtuse.

Armada is expensive. It has an £80 core set and that set doesn't give you a complete game (300points). The expansions are likewise a lot of money. That may be fine for you if you can afford it and want to purchase it. But the point is that Armada is competing with existing interests and diminished budgets - and time!

Like everyone else here, I am a gamer. I own and play lots of different games out there.

I put myself on a fixed budget, but that is just me.

When getting into these different games, my main determining factor is "Are people playing the game"? If lots of people are playing it and I can find opponents easy, then great. I am in. Right now, the excitement around Armada in my neck of the woods (Northern VA) is strong. Lots of players, lots of planned events...I am going to get back my investment.

I never played X-Wing or was even interested, and that is a very popular game around here. Armada is looking to be just as or more popular. We will see Armada plays out and people get into it.

I have known of people in my area who took over the running and organizing tournament at the LGS. The other option is to get a group of people together and request organized play. Most game stores are willing to do organized play events as long as they think enough people will participate.

It is possible that there just aren't too many other people in your area who want to play Armada, if that is the case then I am sorry. You might just have to invite friends to your house and provide the ships for both sides.

Signoftheserpent, I also think your missing another point. How many Star Wars based capital ship games exist besides Armada? I will give you a hint... its zero. That in and of itself gives Armada a huge advantage. One could argue there is competition with Star Trek and D&D attack wing but in the end there NOT Star Wars. This is a huge time for Star Wars and its the right time for FFG to release as much Star Wars content as they possibly can. Over the next 5 years it will quite possibly be the biggest pop culture phenomenon in the entire world. How many people do you know who are planning to see episode 7 this December? I bet almost everyone you know. Of course most casual Star Wars fans wont play Armada but enough will that it is going to be a massive hit for FFG. Just as a side note $100 is really not a lot of money for a game you can play for years. Most people will pay $60 for a PS4 game that will take them a day or two to complete, now that to me seems expensive.

This game may well be a superior design to X wing. That is entirely likely.

I also do not doubt the components merit the cost.

However that cost is still a huge buy in - particularly when it's being marketed to people that already have other gaming commitments. Are enough x wing players really going to be able to afford to support this as well? The price of a single ship in Armada is almost the cost of 1 of each expansions in a typical x wing wave. Not only that, but Imperial Assualt, which is proving very popular, is still relatively new.

I have a feeling Armada will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I think FFG has overreached itself. I'm sure it will sell initially, I'm sure there are plenty of people who will now tell me they are planning on buying a ton of stuff for it and have 3x everything on preorder. Great, but are there enough of such people to build a community and create a sustainable player base - along with everything else they might play?

I'm sure there are enough people like me who were not taken in by X-Wing and waited to see if there would be a game like Armada. Also, why would they be planning a Wave 2 already if the sales figures on Armada indicated it would not be popular?

$100 is a lot of money for a game if I don't know that I will like it. I think this is a reasonable perspective.

I only pre-ordered at $70 after the first preview. It is unlikely that there will be very many people buying it as an impulse purchase.

Signoftheserpent, I also think your missing another point. How many Star Wars based capital ship games exist besides Armada? I will give you a hint... its zero. That in and of itself gives Armada a huge advantage. One could argue there is competition with Star Trek and D&D attack wing but in the end there NOT Star Wars. This is a huge time for Star Wars and its the right time for FFG to release as much Star Wars content as they possibly can. Over the next 5 years it will quite possibly be the biggest pop culture phenomenon in the entire world. How many people do you know who are planning to see episode 7 this December? I bet almost everyone you know. Of course most casual Star Wars fans wont play Armada but enough will that it is going to be a massive hit for FFG. Just as a side note $100 is really not a lot of money for a game you can play for years. Most people will pay $60 for a PS4 game that will take them a day or two to complete, now that to me seems expensive.

Does that advantage reduce the cost?

This game may well be a superior design to X wing. That is entirely likely.

I also do not doubt the components merit the cost.

However that cost is still a huge buy in - particularly when it's being marketed to people that already have other gaming commitments. Are enough x wing players really going to be able to afford to support this as well? The price of a single ship in Armada is almost the cost of 1 of each expansions in a typical x wing wave. Not only that, but Imperial Assualt, which is proving very popular, is still relatively new.

I have a feeling Armada will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I think FFG has overreached itself. I'm sure it will sell initially, I'm sure there are plenty of people who will now tell me they are planning on buying a ton of stuff for it and have 3x everything on preorder. Great, but are there enough of such people to build a community and create a sustainable player base - along with everything else they might play?

I'm sure there are enough people like me who were not taken in by X-Wing and waited to see if there would be a game like Armada. Also, why would they be planning a Wave 2 already if the sales figures on Armada indicated it would not be popular?

I think initially there will be a lot of interest, but I think that, over time, the game will struggle because people won't or can't keep up with the price of playing.

I would imagine the majority of those interested in this game already play X Wing at least.

$100 is a lot of money for a game if I don't know that I will like it. I think this is a reasonable perspective.

I only pre-ordered at $70 after the first preview. It is unlikely that there will be very many people buying it as an impulse purchase.

A starter set for X wing is £30 which is enough for people to take a punt on impulse and I'm willing to bet that's where a lot of interest came from. X Wing is/was also sold in wider outlets; book shops for instance. Not just game shops. I can't see that being the case with Armada.

The buyin cost for Armada is higher than Xwing, absolutely, but its way less than many other miniatures games out there. If you want some real sticker shock, goto GW's website.

But we've established that the cost of other games is irrelevant.

I'm pretty sure you haven't established that. Games don't exist in a vacuum, relative cost and quality of competing games are definitely relevant to the success of a game.

$100 is a lot of money for a game if I don't know that I will like it. I think this is a reasonable perspective.

I only pre-ordered at $70 after the first preview. It is unlikely that there will be very many people buying it as an impulse purchase.

I disagree, Armada will appeal to the "Oh sweet Star Wars models I don't have to paint!" crowd to the random, "Holy crap a Star Wars capital ship game!" people. I'm aure it will also sell to the "Mom look! Star Wars ships!" kids that will turn into a Christmas or birthday purchase.

If hobby shops are carrying it, there will be insta buys.

Signoftheserpent, How many Star Wars based capital ship games exist besides Armada? I will give you a hint... its zero. That in and of itself gives Armada a huge advantage

I've been playing capital ship games for year, starting with SFB in the early 80s. This type of game has never really been all that popular. Hopefully Armada can break that trend but I'm not expecting it to. I'll be happy if a nice variety of ships can be produced.

OTOH, while X-wing itself is popular (to an amazing degree), it's ending it's life cycle. They've produced all the first tier ships, all the second tier ships, and now are digging through the lesser known ships (or inventing their own) just to produce new waves. Armada gives players something recognizable to look forward to.

The cost of other games is of huge relevancy hahahah, why woukd you say otherwise. Epsecially if your argument has to do with priceing???

anyway everything everyone here has said is just speculation. That is just your opinion, my opinion is that it will be a great success.

Though I haven't played a game yet, I did notice quite a few differences between X-wing and Armada once I cracked the box open

The fighters (all unpainted and deformed , but super tiny) have a little sliding tab that marks if they've been activated yet or not.

The range ruler sections aren't equal. If I remember correctly, the range 1 is larger than the rest

Now the big difference is going to be play time. X-wing was listed as 30-45 minutes. Armada is listed at 2 hours. I don't know about you guys, but my track record for 'suggested time' always ran double on board games.

All and all, I'm quite excited to play this weekend.

Yeah I'm guessing three hours for a 300 point game but the LTP maybe 2 hours. Maybe in a few months it will be more like 2 hours after I've memorized all the rules.

It also has to compete with other games for time (and space - it needs 3' by 6' to play!).

That is true, a 3x6 space is a lot more than 3x3. Most of the FLGS in my area already have tables set up for wh40k so it shouldn't be a factor for most stores.

Pretty much every game uses a 4x6 table setup so the space should be pretty standard for most game stores.

Expensive is a completely relative concept. It can only be discussed in relationship to what other similar items cost, income levels, and general value of the product.

A Ford Fiesta starts at 14k, a Jaguar starts at like 60k. Is the Fiesta expensive? Compared to a Jag no not at all, it's dirt cheap. Is it expensive to someone who doesn't even have a job? Yes it is, because they may not have that much money and can only afford a 5k used car.

So to say you can't compare Armada to other miniature games is non-sense of the highest order, but considering the source that's pretty much expected.

Is Armada more expensive then X-Wing? Yes it is, at least if you compare what would be considered a complete wave 1 collection to the same thing in X-Wing.

1 of everything plus an extra CR-90 is $213 at MM, a complete wave 1 X-Wing, with 4 X's, 7 Ties, 4 Y's an Advanced is $157. But if you look at the price of continuing with Armada into wave 2, I think it starts to look better then X-Wing does, simply because you're not going to get more than 1 ISD or MC-80 most likely.

That all said I don't expect it to get bigger then X-Wing. X-Wing has the advantage of smaller cost per model, more models, more list options, well established and supported. It also has the advantage of quicker games, which makes tournaments easier in general. A game of Armada will take 2 to 3 times as long as X-Wing, so if you have a all day event for X-Wing you need 2 days for Armada...

While many people who play X-Wing will pick up Armada, few will quit X-Wing for it, and Armada or Imp Assault will be their 'other game'.

That is true, a 3x6 space is a lot more than 3x3. Most of the FLGS in my area already have tables set up for wh40k so it shouldn't be a factor for most stores.

True, but it's going to limit how many people can play it at home.